Warrior Yoshi-P Elaborates on Warrior Buffs

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by Nichigo, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Nichigo

    Nichigo Content Moderator

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    Get ready for WAR to be the new go to tank. Guess I'm gonna start leveling it now haha.

    Info taken from the official forums DevTracker.

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    Producer and director Yoshi-P here.

    I understand that all our warriors out there are eager to know what patch 2.1 has in store for them. While we’re still in the testing stages, I’d like to give you a preview of what we have planned. Please keep in mind that warrior is still being tested in all encounters available in 2.1, and the following information is subject to change.

    [​IMG]

    Marauder Changes

    • Brutal Swing

      - Recast time will be reduced from 30 to 20 seconds, increasing the frequency with which players can stun foes.​
    • Overpower

      - Enmity generated by this skill has been increased.​
    • Storm's Eye

      - TP cost will be reduced from 70 to 60.​
    • Storm's Path

      - TP cost will be reduced from 90 to 60.
      - This skill will also reduce damage dealt by enemies for a period of time.​
    • Holmgang

      - Range will be increased from 3 yalms to 6, to make the skill more effective.
      - This skill will now pull enemies toward your character.
      - When using this skill, a player's HP cannot be reduced lower than 1.
      - The animation for this skill will be revised. (See screenshot above)​
    • Vengeance

      - This skill will also reduce damage taken by 30%.​
    • Mercy Stroke

      - Recast time will be reduced from 60 to 40 seconds, improving ease of use.​
    • Thrill of Battle

      - Effect duration will be extended from 10 to 20 seconds.​

    Warrior Changes
    • Defiance

      - Enmity generated by this skill will be increased.
      - This skill will also increase HP recovery via curing magic by 20%.​
    • Wrath

      - The improved healing effect granted by Wrath will be removed. Instead, the improved healing effect will be granted by Defiance.​
    • Inner Beast

      - Due to overall balance changes, HP absorbed by damage dealt will be reduced from 300% to 100%
      - Damage taken will be reduced by 20% for 6 seconds.​
    • Steel Cyclone

      - This skill will generate increased enmity.​
    • Unchained

      - Recast time will be reduced from 180 to 120 seconds, improving ease of use.​
    The main focus of these changes—as the seasoned warriors among you have already observed— was Inner Beast and its HP absorption effect. With these changes, warriors will no longer be dependent on a single skill to recover HP, and have overall improved defense.

    To put it simply, we want to ensure the role of warriors as durable tanks. This is why we've also adjusted the effects of Wrath and Defiance. As currently implemented, warriors are forced to lose their healing bonus when using certain skills. However, these changes will allow players to use their warrior skills without sacrificing improved healing, and also maintain the critical hit bonus of Wrath.

    Although warrior will no longer recover immense amounts of HP in a single use of Inner Beast, these changes should improve the overall defensive capability of warriors and the ability to heal them using a support class or job.

    Patch 2.1 may seem a long way off, but please understand that we have to test these balance changes not only in encounters to be introduced in the upcoming patch, but all existing encounters as well.
    (Please refer to a previous post for details on why we cannot break up patch 2.1)
    While I regret having to keep you waiting, I am confident these changes, along with the numerous additions we have planned for patch 2.1, will be well worth your patience.
     

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  2. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    Thanks! Good to know. Hmmm I don't know enough about WAR tanking to draw solid conclusions, but it looks like a really big buff. I gather from this that the heavy enmity they already pull is going to be even larger and, to offset the PALs defensive ability which makes us more practical for a healer to manage, they heal more easily... I think I saw a slight defensive buff aswell.

    Damn, feels like I just became second-tier right as I start getting into the endgame stuff! I've got some time still before this is implemented I guess, and even then there'll be the great debate as to which tank is better which will buy me some more time. Eh, shouldn't take long to grind my MRD either, I don't like the axe but paladin gear looks like crap by comparison, so aesthetically I guess it's ok. :p
     

  3. ilmaestro

    ilmaestro Crystal Brave

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    Looking at it as a healer, the change between Wrath and Defiance seems essential. Would like to see someone do a preliminary analysis of these changes with actual in-game numbers.
     

  4. Lion's Fall

    Lion's Fall Crystal Brave

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    Marauder Changes

    • Brutal Swing
    - Stun is far too necessary for this not to be a good change

    • Overpower
    - Makes sense. It has a high tp cost.

    • Storm's Eye
    - Doesn’t matter much

    • Storm's Path
    - May have gone from okay to essential

    • Holmgang
    - Has three new purposes now. Stop fleeing, repositioning enemies without doing so to yourself, and giving yourself a few seconds of deathlessness. I always thought the virtue of this ability was creative application. That’s only improved. Question is, how well will it work on immobile enemies?

    • Vengeance
    - Another def buff is always welcomed.

    • Mercy Stroke
    - Great now we can try it again faster when it doesn’t give us the kill bonus.

    • Thrill of Battle
    - Already one of the better abilities. Doing this makes it better.


    Warrior Changes

    • Defiance
    - Big. This makes the benefit of being a warrior less of a catch 22 and more of an all around improvement. It also puts the choice around dealing Marauder level damage vs damage mitigation on the shelf in favor of Instant gratification vs crits over time. Makes sense too. Pally’s didn’t have to choose between being an effective tank and their primary moveset. Why should wars?

    • Wrath
    - Now chiefly about damage dealing. A good change: now I can decide how to overcome the penalties of being a war without losing the benefits. Along with making more sense semantically, it just seems intuitive.

    • Inner Beast
    - Another necessary change as far as I’m concerned. I can imagine people not liking it, I too will miss it; but a loss needs to happen somewhere with this drastic changes. Besides, combined with the health buff of defiance, damage reduction for 6 seconds may be more effective than 200% health.

    • Steel Cyclone
    - For the cost of a wrath stack? Duh.

    • Unchained
    - Perhaps too generous. Don’t know how this will improve survivability without making us OP.

    These seem to be changes focused on making the wars high skill cap about covering his butt with buffs more than patching damage. I wouldn't say it will be easier. It seems like I'll have more options to escape death and will have to work to build mitigation. I have to try it first before I say they are good changes or not.
     

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
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  5. Noilane

    Noilane Adventurer

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    i really hate this WAR changes...
    The problem was not the class but the Playerbase :/
    WAR was fine and super balanced yeah u need skill to clear Coil as a WAR but if they gonna patch the WAR like this...
    We will have the same problem but well this time the PLD will have the problem.

    Who wants a pally if u can take a WAR wich... Has TONS of Life Generates allready more enmity(after patch it will be hillarious) and has nearly the same amount of defensive stuff after the patch.

    Really SE u screwed up with this changes... WAR was super fine and it is going to be a overpowered faceroll tank when 2.1 hits -.-
     

  6. Nichigo

    Nichigo Content Moderator

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    ^^It's already been stated and proven that WAR is not at the same level as PLD. We have people only NOW posting videos of War's main tanking Turn 1 (excessively overgeared). It's not as simple as "oh you just need to play better". The curve was TOO high due to WAR's lack of options and it's seemingly counter-intuitive interactions between wrath and defiance.

    Yes...WAR can probably tank full coil. That doesn't mean it's within reasonable reach. Where are your videos of you main tanking coil?

    Anyway...I think it's cool that they got their own version of Hallowed Ground. As a tank, regardless of style, I'd think that is something that synergistic with the job.
     

  7. Noilane

    Noilane Adventurer

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    well i can take some videos next week for u i will put on my DL Gear (wich i had started tanking with WAR in Coil) and show u vids of maintanking Coil 1 to 4 (even the 2 dreadnaughts)
    i can make another video of solo tanking twintania with my 90 gear WAR too if u like to see this !
    i have some videos allready but well all how did u called it overgeared? so i will put on my DL gear only to show u that war is fine

    if u never played the class dont post bullshit like it is stated that WAR is not on the same level as PLD.

    I remember a post by yoshida himself that WAR is fine it is just the playerbase wich doesn't know how to handle the WAR tank
     

  8. Nichigo

    Nichigo Content Moderator

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    He also posted later that tanks weren't meant to survive certain parts of coil, but that Paladin could because of methods they hadn't considered (Link Here to LIVE Letter). He openly admitted that PLD was overequipped for coil compared to WAR due to its damage mitigation and that's what is bringing on the change. He stated that they didn't want to touch PLD though since strategies for coil had already been centered around them, so instead, decided to modify WAR.

    I look forward to your videos.
     

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  9. Lion's Fall

    Lion's Fall Crystal Brave

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    I don't get that from these changes. The skill cap is the same, if not higher. It's the benefits of our rotations is that changed, not the rotations themselves. We have to work for our mitigation. Basically, Pally is still War on easy mode. Higher enmity/damage(reward) is our bonus for taking on this challenge.

    That's the way I see it.
     

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  10. GenRiur

    GenRiur Crystal Brave

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    I have tanked coil on my Warrior...will I sit here and say that they are currently on level with a PLD? sht no, you gotta be blind, deaf and dumb to think that sht, the numbers and proof are all there if you can get past your own ego of "I have tanked T5 im awesome" well you know what, your healers are awesome too.

    The new changes are welcome, will it put us better than PLD, make us more equal, or allow certain fights to require 1 or the other in certain situations, time will tell. PLD's will have to step up more though because the difference in skill between WAR and PLD will be more prevalent.
     

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  11. Lion's Fall

    Lion's Fall Crystal Brave

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    I'm interested to see if mediocre pallys will fall out of competition.
     

  12. Nichigo

    Nichigo Content Moderator

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    Is there even such a thing as a mediocre Pally? lol. The job is so easy. You either get people that just don't get it...or people that know what they're doing.

    Like you said, WAR's don't seem to be getting easier per se...so I think you'll still see a good number of Paladins just due to how straightforward their playstyle already is.
     

  13. GenRiur

    GenRiur Crystal Brave

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    You do see mediocre paladins, there are reactive and proactive players, just like you need a proactive healer on a warrior rather than a reactive. If I am tanking T4 on my warrior with a reactive healer I am going to die, i need a heal cast before I get hit rather than after.

    PLDs, just like WARs need to know what is going to happen in a fight and use cooldowns accordingly, watching stacks on bosses, HP of party members, healer strain etc.
     

  14. Delorean

    Delorean New Member

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    i also remember a month afterwards he said that the dev team didnt expect paladins to use cooldowns to not die which created an issue where paladins were preferred over warriors in turns 1 and 4
     

  15. Gigarit

    Gigarit Crystal Brave

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    I by no means think they will be the go too tank, they will finally be viable. I will finally raid with 1 warrior and 1 paladin as it should be. Paladins with their immunity and reduced spike will be used for certain encounters while warriors for their aoe aggro will be used in others.
     

  16. The47thSen

    The47thSen Scion

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    A lot of my tank friends are very happy that they can now throw away their Curtana.
     

  17. Nichigo

    Nichigo Content Moderator

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    The curtana is the sexiest relic imo :arghh:

    ...esp after having to go through so many level using pocket knives and baseball bats.
     

  18. HeroMystic

    HeroMystic Scion

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    Paladin is easy, but Warrior isn't much harder to play. They're just the weaker tanks.

    And I would seriously question any Warrior who doesn't use Vengenance or Inner Beast as a preemptive mitigation tool, similar to Paladin's rotations, once 2.1 comes out.
     

  19. Lion's Fall

    Lion's Fall Crystal Brave

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    I wouldn't say weaker tanks. They are simply more gear and heal dependent. If they get heals, then they can survive Titan at least.
     

  20. HeroMystic

    HeroMystic Scion

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    Until 2.1, they are absolutely the weaker tanks. Being More gear/heal dependent highlights that.

    WAR can do some pretty badass stuff, like solo some bosses with Inner Beast/Unchained, but on content that matters (i.e. Coil), Paladin has the clear advantage. In fact, SE has already stated that Paladin was much stronger than they anticipated and is the reason why so many people have gotten to T5.
     

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