Warrior Str, Str, and more Str!

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by Genesiser, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Noilane

    Noilane Adventurer

    well i can show u cad and the dreadnaughts but not twin since we are still progressing (like everyone else) on this encounter and well we wont post material about this encounter until we killed it

    about my gear except some accesory i have full 90 gear (mixed mytho and allagan) bravura (not+1 since it is not worth until full 90 geared)

    edit: just to say u need perfect healers who know what to do if u are maintanking as a war!
    not those shitty "i only like pally tanks" healers

  2. JeckylTesla

    JeckylTesla Crystal Brave

    So pray tell me what do your healers do? I'm curious.

  3. Noilane

    Noilane Adventurer

    they do their job :3

  4. JeckylTesla

    JeckylTesla Crystal Brave

    So you actually call healers bad, but you can't actually say what they do that would make them good.

    Sorry, but it's just sounding like you're being carried by your healers more and more and more.

    You don't actually explain what you're doing that suddenly makes you be able to main tank the two dreadnoughts, which hasn't been done so far by any WAR. And you say that your healers need to be on the ball, yet you don't explain how.

    It's all flim-flam.

  5. MarieElena

    MarieElena New Member

    wow... How very sad that 90% you FF Fanboys have no clue how STR works in mitigation. Mitigation values will always Trump a bit of extra HP. The only outcome or benefit to more HP will be is you is you can now take one more hit from the boss before you die.

    STR in regards to tank builds & stats have very little to do with dmg done in a specific encounter but more importantly, block value, parry, threat & overall defense & modifiers to Flash.

    And sadly too many of you FF Fanboys egotistical tanks forget that tanking is not a one man job but two; you as the tank and your pocket healer. Your healers ability also figures into your survivability FAR more than most of you currently believe.
    Strength increases damage done, increases threat, increases parry and block reduces damage taken (consistently with the correct shield chosen wisely with each encounter) while vitality only increases HP.

    Enmity is modified by dmg done by the tank as well; there's nothing wrong with putting all your points into STR. Shield Oath doubles all your enmity as well so that aids you building TPS or Aggro even better...and the more importantly Flash is modified off of STR.

    Lets say for example you are a paladin at level 50 with 2,000 hp and haven't used any of your points. you come up to a boss that can hit you for 500 a hit, but have a healer that can heal you for 350. would it be better to

    1. put all points into vitality and increase your hp to 3,000

    2. put them in strength and reduce damage taken to 300.

    The more than obvious choice is 2, although that extra 1k hp appears impressive, you will eventually die because your healer can't keep up with it's damage or he/she OOMs...However if the boss only hits you for 300 while you get healed for 350, the boss will never kill you.
    A quote from "theshoveller" from Gamefaqs.com Forum

    Think of it like this:

    -Full VIT at level 50 means you survive one more "bigger" hit before you die (i.e. not a super-mega-high-damage attack, but a strong attack by that enemy.) If your health is that low, then something went way wrong earlier in your party.

    -Full STR at level 50 means when you do block damage, you block more of it. It's probably hard to quantify given the lack of experience and numerical testing available with only a few betatests out there, but it could mean anything from having an unlucky run at blocking against a certain guy and dying quicker to being able to block more damage than you would have gained HP by pumping yourself full of VIT. This is on top of increased damage for every attack.

    Going full VIT will give you more of a buffer in case things go wrong, but going full STR means you're going to be excelling at your job of reducing and blocking damage and generating threat even more - which is what a tank would want in the end. Being super-defensive and having a huge HP pool won't mean anything if you can't convince the enemy you're a bigger threat than the guy with a spear poking him in the ass. Likewise, having tons of HP won't mean diddly if you can't take the impact of a blow on your shield too well, and you'll go down fairly quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if in the end we see more numbers emerge pointing out that people should put X in STR, Y in VIT at level 50 fir the different tank classes.


  6. Sword

    Sword Scion

    Yes in theory, but not all moves are blockable, and you have to actually proc in order to make the hit manageable. On the other hand there are times tons of HP is moot, but that's also dependent on gear and you and your players skill.

  7. MarieElena

    MarieElena New Member

    Sword... I so agree. Very few ever mention the term "ability" which is a good 70% of the success rate of the tank's survivability of not only him/herself but the entire group.

  8. GenRiur

    GenRiur Crystal Brave

    The conversation is to do with Warriors not PLD

    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  9. Noilane

    Noilane Adventurer

    sorry to destroy your little dreams but 30str increasing the dmg reduce by 300 is just retarded :3
    1: this thread is only about WAR not pussy PLD
    2: have u ever heard about the parry caps? it is worthless to put your points into str if they will not increase your parry cap
    lets say you have 324STR wich is a Parry Value of 23% and u put all your 30 Points into STR this will Boost you to 354STR well then all those 30Points STR will do is increase your DMG/Threat cuz u are still missing 9Points for the Next Parry Cap

    an example:
    for twintania i use full STR ilvl70HQ crafted accesorys and rebuild from VIT to STR cuz i will only lose 50VIT but will gain 79 str wich will put my STR up to 457 with that i have the 26% Parry Hardcap and lose only the 50VIT

    got it?

    Think b4 posting Bullshit

    thank you

    Kiwi, GenRiur and Sword like this.
  10. Bizant

    Bizant Scion

    That damage table SHOULD put an end to this ridiculous discussion. If I'm looking at it right, the 30 extra STR points will NEVER get you more than a 1% increase in parry mitigation, and similar for shield block. It might be possible to get 2% but I can't be bothered to check every margin. For those people who seem to think STR-building is viable: do you have any idea how small a value that is? If it's not obvious on the face of it, you can do some pretty simple maths to prove that it's utterly useless in comparison to the very, very healthy HP boost from a full VIT boost.

    I'm surprised it took that table to make people realise this, but there it is. MarieElena, in particular: your 350 down to 300 HP received is unbelievably far from realistic. Again someone correct me if I'm reading that table wrong, but I believe the real scenario would be more like 350 down to 345. So yeah. That should settle it.

  11. Genesiser

    Genesiser Adventurer

    It's been a long time since I started this thread and to be honest, I don't play warrior and play my monk. My friend however does play warrior so we did a bit of testing to see how much str really mattered. Long story short, he messed around with his gear/stats and he lost 40 str but gained 40 vit (reset bonus stats and replaced two rings). The differences? Very disappointing.

    Hitting a target dummy for 5 mins at a time, 10 different times, his dps (I know he's a tank, but we wanted to see how losing 40 str would affect him) dropped by an average of 10 dps. That's really pitiful especially if you consider a 5 minute fight, his 10 dps would be 3500 damage. If you have 4 dps that are only doing 250 dps, you just saved your group a total of 3.5 seconds.

    We then went to fight enemies to see how much less he would reduce damage from parries. His loss in 40 str made his parry go from 24% down to 23%. So a whole 1%...

    Anyway, with the more vitality setup he gained 720 hp when in defiance and lost 10 dps and 1% dmg reduction from parry. So obviously the vit setup is much better for a tank not only when you add in the pitiful gains you get in dps and parry, but especially in 2.1 when your big hp recovering move restores 100% dmg done instead of 300%.

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