Astrologian Healing Class Differences?

Discussion in 'Disciples of Magic' started by Jeth, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. Jeth

    Jeth Bounty Hunter I

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    So I was kind curious. I've read a few threads on the different types of healers and they all seem to have a rather unique role when compared to one another. But most of it is from a more analytical standpoint. I'd honestly like to ask how the classes feel to you when you play them.

    Case in point, I'd like to heal after I get my Warrior up and ready and a monster. Healing is rather fun and I enjoy doing it, but I'm not sure which of the healers is the best fit. I have healed before, I was a healing Shaman for a long time in WoW when I wasn't on my Warrior. And I spent some time as a Red Mage in FFXI. So I'm a bit used to that.

    But I'm asking, what would you compare the healers to? I'm a bit curious so I have an idea of what each one is capable of.

    And I couldn't post without a prefix, so really this thread is about all healers, not just AST.
     

  2. Joygasm Ironfist

    Joygasm Ironfist Crystal Brave

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    White Mage is the quintessential healing class in this game. They go well with any other healer, including dittoing with themselves. No gimmicks, plays exactly like healers of past games, always useful healer class.

    I know I didn't compare the 3 classes, I just have not played AST, only what I've read and regurgitating someone else's information never translates well.
     

  3. Jeth

    Jeth Bounty Hunter I

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    That's awesome actually, this is the kinda input I'm after. White Mage is rather appealing, looks like it would be fun and I can wrap my head around how it would work. I just know that from game to game healers may function differently than one another.
     

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  4. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    I've played all three healers extensively, WHM and SCH in 2.55 Endgame. A short summary...
    White Mage is the raid, AoE healer. They are reactive with heals and do heals after/as something is happening.
    Scholar is a proactive healer that is better with single target and has a pet to command. Shields for mitigation sort of thing.
    Astrologians are not either, but they supply more utility than Scholar and White Mage. They're a RNG based class with less potent heals over but massive raid buffs (party wide 5% DPS for example).
     

  5. Rainbowie

    Rainbowie Adventurer

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    As an Expert on SCH, I can say you have to very proactive and creative with how you initiate your different Buff/Heals/Shield and which fairy is best for your group. Eos is a healing fairy who uses buffs to increase healing done on everyone by a large amount, has a AoE Regen, and a buff to increase magic defense. You can pair all the buffs along with the AoE regen for a very powerful HoT if A) The WHM is out of mana (Scholars have near unlimited mana thanks to Aetherflow) or B) You're prepping for a very huge unavoidable hit. The second fairy, Selene, offers a more offensive buff that increase attack speed and casting speed by 5% to everyone in the buff radius. Her other skill is an AoE Esuna/Cleanse that removes 1 negative debuff from everyone it hits.

    The shields are a different story, but is pretty easy to get. Your shielding skills will mainly be Adloquium, Succor, and Sacred Soil. Adlo is the most potent shield and is a single target heal. The amount you heal is the amount shielded. The cool part about Adlo is that if the heal crits, the shield strength is doubled. Succor works the exact same way except it's AoE, less potent, and doesn't get 2x shield on a critical heal. Sacred Soil is a skill used for big hits. The skill decreases damage by a solid 10% for everyone in the shield bubble.It's fairly large, but you still have to aim it.
     

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  6. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    I would agree with mikairi; they have different playstyles in their approach but their utility is only scaled to the operator's skill.

    The truth is, a lot of the skills that made the WHM or SCH unique disappear in 3.0 content... Even our traits reflect that...

    WHM don't have a fairy or cards; so our focus will forever be healing (first) with DPS utility that's been scaled up with the content (as explained by yoshiP).

    SCH need a fairy, but they got Majorly gimped with poor fairy returns that don't scale well... This will almost certainly be fixed soon. I mean, it has to be fixed... Unless fairies were meant to do less healing so sch couldn't do as much DPS...

    AST is so overpowered when played well, but most ppl absolutely suck balls at their healing buffs. They will get better once PPL get used to set strategies... If you want to heal as AST I'd learn on WHM up to lvl 50 for basic skill awareness, then swap over (as the skills almost map directly for basic healing strategies)... They are not hard to learn, but might give ppl trouble if they are new to it altogether.
     

  7. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    Plays exactly like WHM from 30 to 50 actually. XD You just buff people in between heals but you need to do it quickly or else you got a dead dps or tank. XD

    Healing in this game is pretty standard. It's your typical squishy robe caster that needs to stand in the back that cast spells. The only time in FF series that they deviated from this was with DNC in FFXI which I loved the idea of a close range battle healer. That could dps and heal at the same time. I honestly think they should bring that to FFXIV because it would really be interesting and unique.
     

  8. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    Here's my 2 gil:
    Conjurer level 30 = You get a Unicorn mount! WOOT! :haha:
    Sorry, Shhhcolars, sorry ashhhtrologians!!
     

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  9. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    WHM is great for getting into healing, it's a job where as a newbie you'll able to perform from day 1. Your skills are all straight forward and you aren't at all reliant on cross class abilities until you get into the difficult content (though they're always nice to have, and getting them early helps you to get in the habit of using them)

    That being said there are a lot of nuances to learn to master your job. The obvious being mp management which for WHM goes right along side enmity management (because your heal potency is huge and costly, overhealing results in big aggro builds and mp loss. Also the skill that regenerates your mp simultaneously reduced your enmity). If you're attentive you'll learn not to overheal early on, because your basic cure I heals for 1/3 - 1/2 of the tanks HP, and tanks don't have much aggro at that point. So if you're healing for ~400 HP, don't heal the tank every time he has 100 points of damage.

    Then it gets deeper with proper management of your buffs and DPS skills--especially Holy and Fluid Aura. Holy can either be costly or when used right can help you save mp and mitigate damage to your tank by stunning the mobs. Fluid Aura can either make it harder for your tank/DPS to do their jobs, or make it easier. Deeper understanding of how aggro generation works can help you help a struggling tank by not pulling aggro too much or too early, or help and experienced tank by gathering freshly spawned mobs for him.

    But again, it's a simple job to pick up and the subtleties come with experience as a WHM, as well as experience with other jobs.

    SCH has a more complicated play style and a variety of valid play styles. IMO it has the most potential to support parties and keep things flowing, preventing deaths, wipes, etc when played right and a good SCH is a godsend. But it doesn't have quite the potential to bounce back after things go downhill.
     

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  10. Spokey Dokey

    Spokey Dokey Crystal Brave

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    I mained a SCH pre 3.0. Now I main, I guess, an AST.

    How I view the classes.

    WHM - boring, not much going on, I fall asleep every time.
    SCH - much more involved for reasons already stated
    AST - much much more involved.

    I play on the PS4 and as such use a PS4 controller. All my SCH moves were basically mapped to my right hand. I play AST much the same way I played SCH (as I think the two classes are indeed similar) so my build is the same. That said, I essentially have my cards and what not on my left hand and my heals and what not on the right. It just feels like I'm actually doing something rather--that I'm actually involved. It feels really great to get that card your party needs and then it on the most viable player, then extend the duration of it, and watch them go to town. When I was playing a SCH I got satisfaction from getting big, big critical hits (because adlo puts up a x2 shield if its a critical hit). But after a while I dunno, that just kind of became a thing. I guess I like the randomness/fated aspect of the AST. It keeps me engaged and interested. You've got so much to micro manage, its good fun--but also not that complicated.

    I also beg to differ about the SCH not being able to bring things back once things hit the fan. Succor + Whispering Dawn + Rouse + Whatever that move is that makes heals stronger (forgot it, just know the pretty icon and where it sits on my hotbar!) 3 stacks of Lustrate (which are now nerfed) want a word with you. It certainly isn't easy, but it can be done! Its an even bigger pain on a AST. Haha.
     

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  11. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    A friendly disagreement with Spokey here! YAYYY!!!! :cheer:

    To me, WHM is just as involved if not more! As we all know, WHM is reactive healing. Try fall asleep for 2 seconds, and people will die! Because it's reactive healing, it is a class that require very fast reaction.

    If you see someone hurt, you have to react very quickly:

    Determine the situation, and improvise is the key ->
    -- Is there only 1 person to heal? Or is it multiple people?
    ---- If one person, is he/she going to be hit again?
    ------- If no, perhaps use Regen, and let him slowly recover while I remain actively healing the tank.
    ------- If yes, is there enough time to cast Cure or Cure II on him/her?
    ------- If yes, is that enough to keep him/her alive? Or should I Swiftcast -> Cure II or Swiftcast -> Stoneskin the person?
    ---- If it's multiple people, are they clustered? How hurt are they?
    ------- If they're very hurt, or if they're clustered around the tank, Cure III (small area AoE around target, strong heal) would be a good choice.
    ------- If they're not that hurt, or if they're far apart, then perhaps Medica (large area AoE around myself, weaker heal than Cure III) would be better.
    ------- If they're really hurt, and if they're far apart, then perhaps 2x Medica would be a better choice.
    ------- If they're hurting continuously/steadily and require some kind of Regen, then perhaps Medica II would be a better choice.

    All these decisions have to be made within 1 or 2 seconds, many many times every full party run. Together with the timely use of multiple buffs like Presence of Mind, Divine Seals and Shrouds of Saints, this is what differs a strong White Mage from an average White Mage. And let's not forget about keeping yourself alive by the use of "Sprint" and dodging enemy mechanics (a good WHM/SCH uses Sprint a lot to reposition herself/himself quickly)!! It's very finger intensive!

    Btw, WHM can also be preventive healing! If you know something is going to hit the party soon, you can Swiftcast stoneskin on a particularly weak/hurt player to keep him/her alive. You can also use SureCast -> Medica before the enemy AoE hits, so that right after it hits, everyone is already half-healed (the SureCast ensures that your Medica will not be disrupted by the enemy AoE). If the 2nd healer is as smart as you are, the whole party will already be back at full health before the enemy even does its next move.
    WHM can be very pro-active too!!!! :glee:
     

  12. joshua david

    joshua david Crystal Brave

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    ^ not enough like buttons
     

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  13. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    Thanks, but I still think the Unicorn mount is more important than keeping party alive :haha:
     

  14. kotorinbo

    kotorinbo Crystal Brave

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    I have not played AST, so here is my take on WHM/SCH. Please note that these are all just my opinion.

    WHM is easier to learn how to heal on. It is not so much a problem of the complexity of skills as it is poor design on some fronts. WHM can heal dungeons starting from level 15 as CNJ. SCH does not have this luxury. Haukke Manor is fairly harmless, but it is no Sastasha by any means, especially that final boss. SCH also has the problem of not being able to dispel debuffs until level 40, Selene skill aside. Finally, it is a bit more difficult to get a feel for incoming damage on SCH because of the fairy. These things aside, both are actually very straight forward healers at the start.

    As far as actual gameplay, I do not believe in the reactive or proactive mindset. Both healers have to know what damage is coming and how to react appropriately. The difference is only in how exactly they go about doing so. WHM has greater healing output, while SCH has greater damage mitigation. WHM healing is gated more by efficient MP usage juggling low and high cost spells depending on how much damage needs to be healed. SCH healing is gated more by efficient cooldown usage to supplement weaker pure healing throughput. SCH also has to deal with micromanaging the fairy.

    Both play fairly similarly in dungeons. See damage? Heal damage. Not much damage? Time to DPS. Raids are a bit different. WHM do not have the accuracy to efficiently dish out damage in end game raids as of pre-Heavensward content, whereas SCH have three damage skills which do not rely on accuracy. WHM is more of a pure healing class in this case, while SCH is more of a jack of all trades which is pretty much always doing something, whether it be pushing damage, shielding for a big hit, or helping WHM with healing in damage heavy phases.

    On the topic of recovering from bad situations, both classes are more than capable, but I agree WHM does the job better. WHM recover simply by blowing more MP. SCH need to have their cooldowns up at the right times, and even then can not burst AOE heal quite as well as WHM.
     

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  15. Rainbowie

    Rainbowie Adventurer

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    I only have AST up to 50 do far, but what I can give as info from it is that while similar to WHM, they have small nuances that make them stand out. Firstly - the card system and skills let them add different buffs to party members or burn a drawn card to increase the effect of the next. While not too game changing, they can pack a punch when you give the whole raid a 5% damage boost. They also have a stance that gives 2 skills a regen, or another where it gives a shield like SCH. Third - they are FAST. They have a skill that makes almost every skill insta cast at the cost of 25% heal potency reduction along with a trait that makes their Benefic I have a chance to make Benefic II instant. I've healed a tank from 2% HP to 100% in the span of about 1.5-2 seconds. It was awesome. Lol.
     

  16. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    I'd say AST is more reactive than WHM. XD Cause their heals are fast and you need to do it in between deciding what buffs and cards to use on whom and when.
     

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  17. Spokey Dokey

    Spokey Dokey Crystal Brave

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    Remember the good old days when WHM had the better protect? Le sigh. Now I actually have to put it on the party myself.

    "Why is everyone standing around?" I ask myself... "Oh right." I used to raid with a WHM so like... putting protect on was never my thing. I'd always forget during dungeon runs as a result.
     

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  18. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    Just to clarify, the "proactive/reactive" healer types we keep referring to doesn't suggest that one healer needs to know whats coming and the other doesn't, or that one can bounce back and the other can't. When it comes to reactive healing, WHM has more potential to bounce back because it has a variety of potent skills which aren't dependent on long CDs or Aetherflow stacks (though I still consider Lustrate to be the best heal in the game). On a whim a WHM can pick up an entire party or a single player and then do it again 3 seconds later.

    When it comes to being proactive, the SCH has more potential to prevent and reduce damage. There have been situations where I repeatedly knew a DPS was going to die, and my WHM just couldn't do anything about it, so I switched to my SCH and was able to quickly reduce the damage on that DPS with little notice. You can reduce damage in an area with sacred soil, on the party with Succor or pet skills, or on a single target with Adlo. WHM has stoneskin (which SCH also has) but with its high cost and longer cast time it doesn't fit into every situation like Adlo does.
     

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  19. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    baby bene is pretty fantastic! It sits on such a short CD you can really use it comfortably as part of a normal heal rotation, and not just for tanks.

    WHM will forever be a archetype healer. And the new utility in 3.0 make them hella more fun to play.
     

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  20. mitchcanter

    mitchcanter Crystal Brave

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    I have a level 54 AST and a level 50 WHM. I'll add to this guide by saying this:

    You absolutely, regardless of whether you play SCH, AST, or WHM, **NEED** to get Thaumaturge to level 26. Swiftcast is an absolutely, non-negotiable necessity. You can do it when you hit 50, or you can do it anytime before that, but make sure it gets done.

    That said I generally agree with everything else that's been said. Personally, I tend to keep my AST in Noct stance (the SCH stance) just because I like the shields more than I like the regens (plus, aspected heals are more potent in Noct stance).
     

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