Warrior Have I been tanking wrong the whole time?

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by wildbillhdmax01, Sep 3, 2014.

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  1. Relis

    Relis Crystal Brave

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    Cure 3 is amazing when its used correctly... Most WHM's dont know how to do that though. Or how to properly use other AOE heals... Which is unfortunate. I've noticed this ALOT since I have been playing my Bard so much lately for everything I've been doing..
     

  2. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    I wrote a PLD mitigation reference on the DoW section recently. I do sometimes fail to mitigate properly in that fight, but I consider it to be one of the most complicated fights to MT (can't think of one that's harder). Theres just a lot for the tank to do in there, remembering spiny, watching OT stacks, trying to dodge those two slipstreams, proper positioning and (an issue I see for others) fighting WHM for enmity. Then there's the side things, like LB if spiny dies prematurely, mark Satin Plume, etc.

    I do know how to mitigate well in there, but on occasion I'm distracted and focused on other things. It's especially confusing when you're in a group that does things differently from what you're accustomed to.
     

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  3. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    That makes me feel like I wasn't off in left field then... Cool. It's a hard fight to learn for heals, but certainly super easy once you do.

    And you're right... The biggest threat we pose to the team is if we fight for aggro with the tanks by overdoing unnecessary medica2 bursts.

    I tell any new heals to avoid med2 until after the sisters drop, which can help. Lol... I learned the hard way.

    For healing the tanks specifically, dividing them and giving each an eye4eye before Garuda windburn and wheels, and rely on regen and stoneskin to hold dmg, and save the bene for an emergency in this phase.

    The cyclone phase is still a little unpredictable, depending on if the team is all casters (good) or melee (scary)... As cure3 on stacked casters is usually good enough...

    And usually... If the team can get this far, the tanks are doing it right... And we can finish in 2-3 cycles.
     

  4. delta5ff

    delta5ff Scion

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    I been playing since beta on playstation. And I remember near the beginning when the way you foughtCopperbells last boss changed. If I was leveled down it wasn't by much. Everything was going fine until the last boss when all of a sudden were all surrounded by about 20 of those big buggers, im medica spamming for all I'm worth saying good bye to my precious mp praying to any god that will listen to leg us survive the fight and buy some miracle we all make it through barely. Wasn't until after I learn on the Internet that the new way to run it was not to fight the adds and just burn the boss:shifty:
     

  5. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    I was confused the first time I ran Copperbell too, because I looked up a guide and it said to kill the adds. :shifty:
     

  6. delta5ff

    delta5ff Scion

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    That was the plan until the d(er)ps and meat shields decided that new healers had an easy job with no learning curve :blackeye:
     

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  7. Mindflenzing

    Mindflenzing Crystal Brave

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    You were definitely doing nothing wrong. Having played all 3 roles in endgame I can say that the fundamental roles of the game do change at endgame. In any dungeon I have ever done, unless you have well-geared Blackmages and Bards, splitting targets makes the run take noticeably longer, makes the tank lose hate way more often, and causes the healer to work overtime to keep the DPS (and themselves) alive. Focusing targets is the only sane way to go when you have Dragoons and Monks (who, as single target DPS will probably never notice that everybody else changed targets till they get hate). I have tried to AOE burn as Goon or Monk and it is wildly inefficient. As a Melee DPS I usually only use them when the tank does not mark and I want to be able to see when the rest of the party changes targets so I don't end up with the hate. We have 3 endgame Summoners in my family and they only do marginally better than Melee DPS for AOEs. Blackmages, and to an extent Bards are really the only classes that make Full Pulls viable. Thanks to PUGs I've been in way too many full party wipes because an impatient tank thinks that two goons can DPS down three full trash mobs at a time. Some people seem to like to turn easy trash mobs into life or death drama. These people are not Healers. When they are Tanks they are usually not the sort of Tanks who care if the Healer or melee DPS dies. So keep on tanking responsibly and lets hope the PUGs drink a little more responsibly in the future.
     

  8. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    There is only one statement I would disagree with in there: "Some people like to turn easy trash mobs into life or death drama. These people are not healers."

    Pug healer on Hullbreaker insisted I take multiple mobs at a time and then let me get down to triple digits with all my cooldowns spent. I never died, but I sure was crapping my pants. By the time I throw up Thrill of Battle and Convalescence and am still a level 3 archer's hit point pool away from dying, we have a problem.
     

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  9. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    Meet a bad healer. But I will say, if someone insists on you pulling a bunch, try and cycle such good buffs out at first so that they can keep you up and have time to do their own thing. If the healer is around i90, I'd still just pull maybe five-six mobs total instead of a ton, which is roughly one pull and one path mob. A WHM will be considerably worse than a SCH when it comes to keeping a tank up, because SCHs are all about mitigation, so keep that in mind when assessing how good your healer might be. That being said, an i110 WHM should be able to keep you up just fine with multiple mobs.
     

  10. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    i100+ Scholar (or at least his left side stuff was). "Pull all the way to the water spout" (from where I was, about 7 mobs with the sprites that spawn there).

    Started the fight with Foresight, popped Vengeance and Bloodbath very shortly after starting, and then Infuriate and Inner Beast, and was down to panic HP levels and hitting Second Wind and Thrill of Battle and Convalescence very shortly after that.

    Yeah. I was soiling myself.

    And this was after he said "pull more than one mob at a time" and I told him I wasn't very comfortable with bigger pulls. Aaaaaaand that would be why.
     

  11. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    ..Did...did he DPS or something? A SCH really shouldn't fall behind. I could heal that pull perfectly on my i95 SCH, with everything into INT. I mean, the sprites hit hard, but not that badly. While a SCH lacks having the protect for this, they have about a thousand other skills to throw off there.
    I think at that point it's just a lack of comprehending your class and how to optimize it. I don't blame you for hating large pulls when you get stuck with people like that.
     

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  12. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    I have no idea if he was DPSing or picking his nose; I was too busy panicking to watch him XD

    But yeah, that sort of thing is a lot of why I don't like to do big pulls. Inevitably, I get either a healer who makes me nervous, or a DPS I can barely keep hate off of. (Admittedly, I don't even know the theory of speedrun pulls. I'm not sure how you're supposed to do it without so draining your resources that you then have to stand around waiting for them to regenerate, defeating the purpose. Most of the time, I end up Flashing and Overpowering myself dry because even if I start with Infuriate/Unchained and Berserk and numerous Overpowers I don't seem to be able to get my normal combo rotated around to 6–8 guys fast enough to keep ahead of a BLM on hate. I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing.)
     

  13. Sword

    Sword Scion

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    Oh yeah, I have the same worries. I mean sure you can let my hp dip a little so you can make the cure count more, and to throw that extra stone/aero, but I start getting worried when my hp starts dropping below and remains around 50% longer than necessary.
     

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  14. Mindflenzing

    Mindflenzing Crystal Brave

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    And I would argue that despite his role, that dirtbag was no healer. Maybe he mains DPS or maybe he mains DGS (don't give a sh*t). If it's your fault, as an endgame healer, that your tank is camping out at 1 critical hit away from a total party wipe on trash pulls; you need to change classes because you clearly have no business as a healer.
     

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  15. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    Tanks can be blamed as well though, in certain cases - for example, if I queue into insert any HM dungeon here as a healer, and we get a DRG and MNK as our DPS...I'm gonna punch a tank if they try to speedrun and have the poor melee run out of TP faster than necessary and have me nearly run out of MP because they think two melee is speedrun material.
     

  16. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    Very true when that happens.

    Though in my case at least the only reason I was trying to speedrun is because the healer kept insisting and when I didn't he went and pulled the next mob himself ;-;
     

  17. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    I've done that...once. We had two BLMs. I accidentally aggroed the mobs, but I told the tank that SV HM was mind numbingly boring and that he was free to pull more mobs.
    I DCed after. I blame karma, though this case was a genuine accident and then me speaking up. I'm used to tanks just pulling one at a time.
     

  18. Mindflenzing

    Mindflenzing Crystal Brave

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    OMG. I always get speedrun drunks... er uh, Tanks when we have no AOE dps. Two Blackmages fine. Two Bards at high levels OK. But when you have two Goons and you insist on pulling like nine guys at a time, you need to stop huffing paint. I suspect most speedrun tanks either hate content, hate healers, or a combination of both. Next time I see a speedrun tank I might just ask him what I ever did to him to make him hate me so much.
     

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  19. That's right it's Molls

    That's right it's Molls Crystal Brave

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    if the tank isn't losing hate, there's no reason to focus one mob at a a time. Burn them all at once whenever possible.
     

  20. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    Well sure, but doesn't that really only apply to groups that have a Black Mage or a Bard? I believe that for, say, a Monk or a Dragoon to focus on their area attacks would actually be lowering their overall DPS output significantly, and if you're attacking a single target anyway, why wouldn't you focus?
     

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