Black Mage Flare vs Holy! The great aoe off!

Discussion in 'Disciples of Magic' started by delta5ff, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. delta5ff

    delta5ff Scion

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    Ok so after high jacking the sleep thread I thought it only fair we moved this discussion to a separate thread so the other one can stay on topic. I hope you don't mind me moving the discussion over.
    I personally find it amazing that we can be comparing the dedicated aoe "nuke" class to a healer. It just doesn't seem like it should be a thing. Don't get me wrong I do love it and love been able to let loose with holy.
     

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  2. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    Lol. There is no question holy spamming can give great dps, but holy is limited by mp. And depending on your party (and comfort level), it can put the tanks at risk if the WHM isn't good at timing for a benediction, and/or knowing when and how to come out of CS to regain control of healing.

    A geared Blm will still outstrip whm because they have endless MP, and a fire2 spam under 3 astrals is also pretty devistating, followed by a double (or triple) flare,... So, imho, they have a great deal of overall nuke potential over holy spammers, like me.

    Remember, holy also comes with a stun effect, which helps to break some of the chaos up... And lets the DPS (and tanks) maneuver a little easier.

    I never expect a healer to go into CS and DPS, unless they are comfortable doing so, and aside from a few tight DpS checks; eg AK HM, Sex... Not really needed.
     

    Last edited: Apr 7, 2015
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  3. delta5ff

    delta5ff Scion

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    I dps'd Qarn hm as a whm when it first came out in a company premade since I had nothing else to 50. They only had to make minimal concessions for my mp in between pulls. For a healer we can put out some impressive dps when called upon
     

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  4. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    For Bray HM full room pulls I was always in the habit of Holy spamming all the mobs and recharging mp during boss fights. My BLM would complain that they couldn't get their Flare off because of me :p I still do this in the new dungeons but you can't do really big pulls in most. The affect of Stun from Holy meant no need for heals, just regen and and bene
     

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  5. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    As a Smn, though... Shoot... I absolutely dread holy and flare as it usually makes setting up my DoT bane rotation a pain in the ass... The number of times I contagion my target to lose it from a holy/flare before a bane... Makes me cry.

    :cry:

    #handsoffmyDoTs
    #partyfoul
    #dotagain

    :redcard:
     

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  6. nobopyon

    nobopyon Crystal Brave

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    holy is op :p

    i used to run dungeons (expert & hm roulette) as SCH because I can dps and let fairly heal... but i switched to WHM while back due to holy OP can run dungeon faster than going in as sch dps
     

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  7. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    Holy is something WHMs should Swiftcast in big pulls. Tank drops low? Swiftcast Holy...even if you aren't comfortable swapping to CS (though if you get one off, might as well get the other few you can until Stun DRs kick in).
    I Holy every pull I can when running dungeons - Shroud tends to be up in time for me to not have to worry. Of course Flare is a lot better than Holy, though. My Holies crit for about 2k@full i130...Flares crit for 4k+ with a full i130 BLM.
     

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  8. Ish

    Ish Scion

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    Very true that flare is more devastating, more often then not i do 3X Flares but at the same token Holy is damn impressive also.
    Rather funny when a whm can be doing more damage then some dps plus heal, haha

    And omg this ^
    This be the reason i also decided to do blm Relic now, i need more spell speed
     

  9. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    The Lilith zeta is SOOOO pretty. If I didn't have to do ATMa/books again, I'd totally want one...
     

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  10. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    Working on my future BLM Lilith Zeta as we speak. Hullbreaker just refuses to drop for me. I've run this dungeon at least 50 times in the course of two weeks.

    If they didn't gimp Holy it would be even more OP. Holy spam is pretty impressive if you got two BRDs to support that delicious MP hungry spell along with boosting the damage.

    Flare has it's own merits. Really only thing that I don't like is the cast time. If only BLM had double cast. XD
     

  11. Ish

    Ish Scion

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    triple flares, enough said
    I agree cast time is super slow
     

  12. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    Triple flares are nice but lets be honest...if Holy wasn't limited by MP it would pull ahead of Flare.
     

  13. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    This isn't entirely true - the same thing could be said about Flare. If they both weren't limited to MP and AFs, Flare would trump; Holy's stuns stop being effective and gain DRs like anything else, so it doesn't have much else going for it...and stuns don't even work in higher content. I Holy the adds in T13 because I'm healthy on mana most of the time and there's no stun there, for example.
    Holy does ~1.5k on a high crit (was watching my Holies during a dungeon)...Flares easily do ~3k or so on an equally geared BLM.
     

  14. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    Yeah but in order for flare to keep the ~3k they need to be under astral Fire III, and with current mechanics they can't do more than 3-4 in a row.
     

  15. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    Of course, but I simply imagined your post was ignoring the necessary mechanics for both AoEs, not just one. It'd make sense to give them an even playing field.
     

  16. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    New skill desired in expansion:
    "Holy Flare"
    Beat that!
    We need a Grey Mage for it.
     

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  17. delta5ff

    delta5ff Scion

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    OMG Grey Mage confirmed for expansion. I just found my new main:haha:
     

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  18. Pearl

    Pearl Crystal Brave

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    Why compare them, have both a WHM and BLM in any dungeon....(Holy+Flare) ... what mobs!
    They need to give flares doom in expansion! :haha:
     

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  19. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    I would settle for a burn effect. XD
     

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  20. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    Actually, it'll make more sense to give Monk's "Touch of Death" a doom effect... Hence making it a real "Touch of Death"! As for now, ToD doesn't kill anything... It really doesn't fit its name.
     

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