Warrior Changes to Warrior's Viability

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by Gonzothegreat198, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. Gonzothegreat198

    Gonzothegreat198 Adventurer

    I've seen all kinds of posts over on Lodestone addressing this and I think many people are overlooking a major issue. They keep harping on the fact that we lose the healing buff from Wrath and it should be placed permanently on Defiance. IMO thats wrong, at least in the sense of a general healing buff. Here are my thoughts.

    The biggest issue we have is with our self healing: 25%(35%?) DMG reduction in Defiance=25%(35%?) less healing by OUR abilities, and using our self healing runs into the problem of wasted overhealing by SCH/WHM . Yes Inner Beast ignores the damage penalty, but none of our other Healing abilites do. IMO the best way to counter both would be:

    1. Add in a lvl 50 Trait Improved Defiance - When defiance is active increase all healing
    by MRD/WAR abilities by 25%(35%) and any Overhealing received places a Damage reduction
    shield on the Warrior equal to the amount overhealed (maybe cap it at 50% of total Health)

    The other minor issue player have made an issue of is our threat when OT during Single boss fights (Yes, like the Primals). I haven't done primals so I don't know if this really is that much of an issue, if so the easiest way would be to give us a CD that say transfers 50% of our threat generated within Xs to the target, or something like that.

    Again these are my thoughts on the matter. I post over here as I've seen the community here is a little more levelheaded and mature than over there. Let me know your thoughts on the matter.

    P.S. Anyone wish we could cross class to LNC instead of PUG?

  2. Falchetto

    Falchetto Adventurer

    From my (limited) experience using Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Storm's Path is enough to not get hate off a good PLD.
    If the main tank dies, hit Provoke and start the "aggro chain".

    Btw if you are offtanking or just straight dding turning off defiance could be a good idea.

    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  3. SorriorDragneel

    SorriorDragneel Adventurer

    You're trait sounds nice but SLIGHTLY OP as far as the shield goes maybe cap at 5 or 10% MAYBE 25.....But even that seems generous and maybe make it so it only works on the first heal that overheals you and does not stack..That or only we can apply it by self healing..I unno good idea but needs some tweaks to prevent being too OP or abused. Also a bit too magicy for me as far as warriors go now that i think of it unless it;s supposed to be like hardened blood from the fresh wound.

  4. Larsen

    Larsen Adventurer

    The other two sources of lifesteal are completely negligible. You should never even use Storm's Path once you're level 50 and have Storm's Eye, and Bloodbath heals for so little that it doesn't matter anyway. There's quite few things wrong with the warriors class at the moment, but the damage penalty from Defiance is frankly just irrelevant because it has no influence on any of the things that matter.

  5. caucel

    caucel Crystal Brave

    I don't use defiance in dungeons against mobs. The 25% of penalty Is too big for me. Defiance is a good tool against boss for keep alive.

    For me the only ability for auto heal is inner beast, the amounts of storm path and blood bath are irrelevant.

    I think paladin is a support tank

    The complaint about my warrior is the stun ability. The animation is long and do it a pain for use.

  6. Ingrid

    Ingrid Crystal Brave

    Honestly WARs can be improved by removing the ridiculous cost on Steel Cyclone and beefing up the healing done by attacks.

    WAR has a learning curve that's hampered by high costs and low rewards.

  7. Gonzothegreat198

    Gonzothegreat198 Adventurer


    It's a shame that steel cyclone doesn't have either a healing component or a threat component attached to it, especially considering its a Warrior only ability. Would also be nice if our own self healing generated additional threat as well.

  8. JeckylTesla

    JeckylTesla Crystal Brave

    The problem about WAR is it's lack of mitigation and lack of defensive CDs.

    Honestly, I'm in Turn 4 right now and up to this point, I can count how many times IB has helped me on one hand. Let me elaborate.

    There are a few things a WAR needs if he wants to tank Coil, at the beginning especially without any ilvl 90 gear, you want to put all your attributes into VIT. You want at the least 7k HP. If you don't have 7k hp you are going to struggle and put unnecessary strain on the healers.

    Now here are the problems. The one thing Defiance gives us is the healing buff, this buff pretty much needs to stay up 100%, due to how much dmg we take that is unmitigated. Unless you have Infuriate OR you ASAP need hp to survive one hit for your healers to catch up, you hold your wrath stacks. You need to build those stacks up as fast as possible. I've noticed when tanking the Soldier and Knight on Turn 4 (first wave) I pick them up with Steel Cyclone and what I've seen is that if I do not infuriate the healer struggles with healing me. Defiance heal stacks is the only thing we have that can be called "mitigation".

    Now, IB in itself unless lined up with Internal release and berserk, heals for minimal amounts. Don't get me wrong, I've healed myself for as high at 2k-2.5k, but then I've also healed myself for around 1.3k. That is nothing when tanking Coil, you must only use IB when you know your healer is struggling or you have Infuriate, otherwise you'll only end up making him spend more mana on healing you.

    Right now, WARs are OT, where PLDs are MT. This is what WAR can tank in Coil:

    - Cadaceus when he splits (can't tank it before he splits, not from what I have seen or read about. I may be wrong)
    - ADS bosses, naturally.
    - Adds.

    WAR CANNOT tank:

    - Cadaceus before he splits.
    - Dreadnoughts (not even one) in Turn 4
    - Twintania

    So WAR atm is the OT due to the lack of defences needed to tank bosses.

    Now as for what WAR needs to improve?

    Apparently, WARs will improve heavily as they gear. That may be the case.

    What I think are any of the following, maybe not all at the same time:

    - Have the healing buff not linked to wrath stacks.
    - Have wrath stacks go up to 3 instead of 5 (if the healing buff still linked to wrath stacks then adjust it as usual)
    - Let us use Inner Beast at any time, but adjust the healing done depending on the stack we are at. Also, at max stacks, also have it give us a shield that stacks up to 10-20% of our maximum health.
    - Give us an increased chance to parry with our weapons, at the least.

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