Astrologian AST: Initial Thoughts

Discussion in 'Disciples of Magic' started by mitchcanter, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. mitchcanter

    mitchcanter Crystal Brave

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    53
    107
    21
    I initially said this wasn't a guide, but I think it's evolved into one at this point... So, here you go:

    I took the plunge early this morning and started an Astrologer, and wanted to give some early insight based on the FIRST things you can do as an AST. Hopefully anyone wanting to jump into the class can read these and make an educated decision based on them.

    First and foremost: If you play WHM, you'll be able to ease right into AST. In fact, I'm (VERY SLIGHTLY) miffed that it was so easy. As soon as I read my tooltips I ended up nearly rebuilding my WHM skill bar all over again. Granted, that's not a bad thing - the skills transfer over really well. I even cross classed Protect, Swiftcast, and Stoneskin and was able to just do my Low Level Roulette like I'd normally do as a WHM/CNJ.

    So, here are the skills and their WHM counterparts (if there is one) to help ease the transition:

    These are not in any order, but more grouped together based on purpose

    Healing:
    Benefic: Cure 1 - use this often
    Benefic II: Cure 2 - use less often, but don't be stingy!
    Helios: a burst AoE cure. Basically, Medica.
    Ascend: Rez Plz
    Essential Dignity: This one's a bit different than Benediction, but you get it SUPER early comparatively. It's a "rubber band" heal - the more HP is missing, the more potent it is. It has a base potency of 400, but i don't know what the "max hp" would be to just have the 400.
    Exalted Detriment: Leeches / Esuna. Removes a debuff.
    Lightspeed: Sort of like Presence of Mind, but with a cost - your potency is reduced by 50%.
    Luminiferous Aether: Shroud of Saints - reduces hate and regains MP

    Damage:
    Malefic: Unaspected damage. Think more SCH here than WHM, but it's basically your bread-and-butter damage spell
    Combust: Aero. Does a DoT of unaspected damage.
    Stella: Stone. Does damage and adds Heavy +40% (20s duration)

    Know these, and learn to live with them WITHOUT your cards, because if you're running low level dungeons, CARD DRAWING IS LEVEL SYNC'D OUT UNTIL 30. Haukke is the first dungeon you'll be able to run with card buffs; everything else will just be your skills.

    Now, onto the cards:

    Basically, Draw works by picking a card at random from a deck. Once you have it, you can then apply it to your teammates.

    (the following skills apply for 15s)
    Balance: Damage increase by 10%. Your DPS will love you, but don't be afraid to use it on yourself if you can pull the weight.
    Bole: Reduce damage by 10%. Tanks will love this, but will also work if a DPS is getting targeted more often than they should be.
    Arrow: Increases Attack Speed by 10%

    (the following skills apply for 20s)
    Spear: Reduces ACTION recast time by 20%. I believe this applies only to GCD abilities, but I could be wrong.
    Ewer: Reduces MP cost. DRK tanks love it, as do other healers (and yourself). The BLM could use it but they have SO much mana potential already it seems like it'd be better used elsewhere (I still love you BLMs)
    Spire: Reduces TP cost of weapon skills. Your non-DRK tank will love you.

    You'll also pick up the Diurnal Set skill, but it won't really apply until level 34.

    At 34 you pick up "Aspected Benefic"- it's half the potency of Benefic, but if you have the Diurnal Aspect turned on, it adds a 100 potency regen - basically it's a one-shot Medica II - a cure at the front half, but regen on the back half.

    Level 35 brings Royal Road, and that's where the card tricks start to get interesting! Royal Road allows you to burn your card in exchange for a buff on the next card you draw. The effects:
    Bole and Balance: the next card will be 150% potency
    Arrow and Spear: 50% potency, AoE to other players
    Ewer and Spire: Double Duration (15s turns into 30s)
    I personally kept using Royal Road on my Arrows and Spears and drawing the AoE cards to very good success in Qarn last night - giving everyone in the party at 5% attack buff was pretty darn fun. You'll have to make sure everyone stacks up, but it's not any harder than AoE healing them.

    At 38 you'll pick up Disable. Disable lowers the potency of the target's next single action by 5s. This has the potential to be a very strong skill, but it's best saved for boss mechanics or one-shot options you know you can't avoid (Qarn's Temple Bee's, for example - if you can't burn it down for final sting, Disable it and make Final Sting do less damage).

    Level 40 brings Spread, which allows you to stash a card for later use. Although it can only be used in combat, this is good if there's a certain card you want to keep for later. Alternatively you can stash a card, bring up Royal Road until you get the desired effect, and then utilize it, so it's a way to control the card usage (a slight bit) better!

    At 42 you get Aspected Helios. With your Diurnal Sect you get a Regen that lasts for 30s as well as a lesser AoE heal - sort of like Medica II

    45 gets you shuffle - which makes your card drawing infinitely more useful. Between Shuffle and Spread, you can have a chance to get the cards you need much quicker.

    Level 46 brings Combust II - it's basically Aero II - a longer duration, longer cast time, and harder hitting DoT. Chain with combust for maximum benefit.

    And, Level 50! The Nocturnal Sect - the skill that bridges the gap between the SCH and the WHM. You'll notice a huge increase in your healing potency with your aspected skills in this mode. Also, instead of adding Regens, Noctural Sect adds a nullifying shield to your Aspected Helios and Aspected Benefic. The bad news: It doesn't stack with Adloquium.

    Level 50 also brings Synestry. Synestry lets you choose a target, and any healing NOT done to that target will ALSO heal that target for 50%. My recommendation? Chain up to your main tank during battles with AoE and watch as he stays topped up as you bring up the rest of the party.

    Level 52 brings Gravity. If you've missed Holy, this will be a great substitute. It has a high mana cost, but the 200 potency damage will finally let you keep up with the mobs in HW.

    Malefic II shows up at level 54. Same potency as Gravity, but with a smaller mana cost and only single targeting. I'd use Malefic II more than gravity, personally, but Gravity IS good if you've got a huge mob of minions you'd like dealt with and can spare the mana.

    Time Dilation shows up at 56. It adds 15 seconds onto any beneficial effects YOU CAST onto the target. Cards? Regen? Both count. I love mixing this with Enhanced Draw and giving someone a double potency, double duration buff (or mixing it with Extended Draw to give a 45s card buff).

    The next skill is Collective Unconscious. To be honest... this skill has its drawbacks. It's a channeled skill - you can't move while it's being cast. The damage reduction is 10% in Nocturnal Sect and a 150 potency 18s Regen while in Diurnal Sect... Not being able to move or do other skills is limiting, and there are only a few instances where the regen would be useful. The damage reduction isn't worth the lack of other actions, in my opinion. Still, it's a fun effect to see, and I encourage you to try to work it in if you find a need for it. I just haven't found one yet. :)

    Ah, level 60 - congrats, you've made it to the big leagues! And for your effort: an AoE Stun (Celestial Opposition). However, it also extends *any* beneficial skills by 5s (according to the tooltip). That means any and all things cast on you (and any party members arond you) that help you get a 5s boost. Not bad, but a 150s recast time means that you have to be selective about casting it.

    ===

    Here's what I recommend as far as Full Party makeup going into trials:

    AST/WHM: Be in Nocturnal Sect
    AST/SCH: Be in Diurnal Sect
    AST/AST: One of each

    Since the Regen effect doesn't stack, having one of each will allow you to take advantage of both sects and the advantages of both.
     

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  2. Slayer

    Slayer Adventurer

    18
    18
    14
    Hey thanks for the guide. Although I have never really healed, this guide should prove very useful if and when I try out AST. Very very helpful.
     

    Salem and mitchcanter like this.
  3. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

    674
    451
    38
    Agreed with you, if you play as whm and sch, you can start off and just swap the skills for convenience.

    Lots of fun to play, but only got through the first class quest. Fun job.
     

  4. Rainbowie

    Rainbowie Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    18
    93
    17
    The one thing I haven't seen is any form of MP recovery. There is the Ewer card, and I don't know if there will be a MP Recov skill along the way to 60 so keep us updated!
     

  5. mitchcanter

    mitchcanter Crystal Brave

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    53
    107
    21
    Luminefrous Aether will. It envokes "refresh" which is what Shroud of Saints does.
     

  6. Rainbowie

    Rainbowie Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    18
    93
    17
    Ahhh! I didn't notice that. Thank you very much!
     

  7. Salem

    Salem Adventurer

    13
    5
    13
    Thanks for the early reviews - It's good to know the initial learning curve won't be so bad for WHM/SCH's.
     

  8. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

    Server:
    Zalera
    1,217
    1,742
    64
    This is a nice guide! Thank you!

    As a PLD, i can tell you i will love it too. Flash spamming consumes MP very fast during 2 group pulls. Riot blade combo is the only way to recover MP but it sucks - only recovers a tad bit every 2 moves. Ewer might help a lot!
     

  9. ilmaestro

    ilmaestro Crystal Brave

    1,408
    717
    29
    After playing DRK for admittedly not long to draw firm conclusions, and watching footage that is out there, they have more than enough MP regen as it is. Priority should probably be something like SMN > You/WHM > Burn it if RR is off CD.
     

  10. delta5ff

    delta5ff Scion

    282
    241
    38
    After checking my ability tooltips I immediately set everything to where it was on my WHM bars. I'm a bit worried about it's dps capacity as it doest seem to have anything that packs a punch end with no cc ability like repose soloing could be a problem later on. Also the main thing I don't like is the sound design on the spells. It just sounds like there fizzling out. But we'll see, maybe it will introduce something later that makes me fall in love
     

  11. mitchcanter

    mitchcanter Crystal Brave

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    53
    107
    21
    I updated with the rest of the 1-50 skills. I hit AST 50 last night so I'm officially ready to take my AST into Ishgard!
     

    Hermes likes this.
  12. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

    Server:
    Gilgamesh
    285
    485
    36
    I want to add and say that your Ewer card information is a little incorrect with BLMs. If you see a BLM going into their Fire rotation, using Ewer on them is quite beneficial, as they will pump out more DPS. SMNs can also benefit from Ewer. If you lack a DRK and don't need mana/cohealer doesn't need mana, casters in general will love you.
    And a disclaimer is that this is a general ruling for Arrow; it's assuming the DPS are playing on the same level. If one is obviously doing better, just give it to them - same with Balance, of course.
    Arrow isn't specified, so I'll give my input there: Arrow should be used on BLMs/SMNs if you have one. If you have physical DPS, I'd advise DRG > BRD/MCH > NIN/MNK; not because NIN/MNKs are bad, but because they will go oom damn fast (almost a 1 second GCD with Greased Lightning/Huton).
    Aside from these two, this is pretty well thought out for a small guide.
     

    ilmaestro and Hermes like this.
  13. Aspect of winter

    Aspect of winter Crystal Brave

    101
    44
    20
    Glad to hear that people are really liking AST and that it's really useful if played right. When I first read that its healing potency would be lower than WHM and SCH my immediate thought was: "Translation: This is a secondary Raid healer only (where the Card buffs are actually semi-useful), everywhere else WHM and SCH is vastly superior."
     

  14. mitchcanter

    mitchcanter Crystal Brave

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    53
    107
    21
    I do agree with you. HOWEVER, I've talked to a few BLMs, and I've had one or two tell me to NOT use Ewer on them. Apparently BLM's (and if anyone's a BLM feel free to chime in) get used to knowing how many times you can cast a certain rotation based on your mana pool. Using Ewer actually throws off that rotation. I do see what you're saying; any class that uses MP could benefit from the Ewer card. But TBH it's usually a non-issue because the Ewer card's usually going on myself or the other healer just as a rule. (Hey, who says I have to be completely altruistic with my cards :) )
     

    delta5ff likes this.
  15. delta5ff

    delta5ff Scion

    282
    241
    38
    I'd have to agree. Most jobs have learnt how to use there mana properly by now. You can always tell who's a new WHM because all they want and ask for is more/better mana management, and in contrast I ask for smarter WHM's
    Even now heavensward has launched and we're no longer over gearing everything my mana has never been a problem in the slightest (Except for that one time I died and got rezed while SoS was on cooldown:uguysrmean:)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 1, 2015 ---
    So yeah I'd say give it to you self or the tank. Maybe SCH could use it but from what I gather there already golden and I don't know if SYM is still having problems or not so they may be a good choice
     

    GeekMatt and Billy Batsonn like this.
  16. mitchcanter

    mitchcanter Crystal Brave

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    53
    107
    21
    Here's a question for the BLMs out there: Would Ewer be beneficial to you on your opener vs mid-fight?

    Some of my FC people and I were talking today, and after doing the math it didn't make sense to apply in the Ice/Fire rotation, but what about to open when you're using Thunder? I'm not a BLM, so I honestly don't know.
     

  17. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

    Server:
    Gilgamesh
    285
    485
    36
    BLMs don't like the card in general. That post was a bit before I hit 60 and found out BLMs dislike it. Using it for Thunder isn't too beneficial either as BLMs get very used to certain MP costs and build rotations off of that, like you said. The class honestly might be the most difficult to master because of the min/max and MP tick learning behind it...
     

  18. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

    674
    451
    38
    MP isn't a problem now. SoS ticks for 707 (4-5x) and effectivy recovers 2.5x more mp then before without scaling to gear. You should be getting 4.5k of mp back in 15sec now.

    Also assize gives 10% flat, so at 60... Roughly 1200 mp instantly, every 90secs.

    Now there is no reason to Use shroud at 75%... And we can dump the x-ether... At least for the time being.
     

  19. Ish

    Ish Scion

    Server:
    Leviathan
    367
    122
    31
    Well problem being as blm, the slight mistake costs you with enochian. I actually stated a few more piety this time around because of my race.
    Thunder is still used between cd's and usually not if enochian is up as the few seconds can actually cost you enochian to fall off.
    Subject at hand, Astrologian and i have not heard anything bad other then ... the se forum, so figure, lol
    The class and from all the players i have run with it truly does seem like a very solid class. I absolutely also love that there is a buff or something that costs dps classes less tp?
    Someone in my fc yesterday used it on my Bard, seemed great to me :D

    PS love the guide/review
     

  20. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    I find that I'm playing AST level 42 like I play WHM level 60. I maintain the tank with my regen and regular heal (Cure I/Benefic), and if he starts to get low I'll hit my mini Bene/Essential Dignity -- this is efficient mp-wise but sometimes I'll save those off GCD skills (or if they're on cd already) and I'll use Cure II/Benefic II instead. I don't regularly save them though, because the CD times aren't bad, I pretty much just save them if I know there's a tough point in the fight coming up.

    As for the cards, I basically am using Draw on CD. At level 42 I have no use for the MP and party rarely needs the TP. Bole isn't necessary because damage isn't impressive yet, so basically those 3 cards get Royal Roaded and The Arrow, Spear and Balance get thrown on the DPS I suspect has the highest damage or the tank if he's struggling with aggro.

    Spread is still new and I haven't had much use, other than holding onto (for example) The Balance because this trash pull is almost complete and the card would be wasted if used now.

    Looking forward, my impression is that SCH and WHM will still be the ideal healer combo for maintaining a party, but AST will often be preferred anyways because of it's support + despite being not as impressive healing and shielding-wise, I'm confident it could still do the job. Still got 18 levels though.
     

Share This Page