Scholar WP speed runs

Discussion in 'Disciples of Magic' started by Aziel, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. Aziel

    Aziel Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Log in to remove this ad
    Hey, everyone!

    I hit 50 on my scholar about a week ago, and have been doing WP through the duty finder. I'm having some issues keeping the tank up when he pulls 3+ groups. If I start healing as soon as he stops moving, it's already too late... I can use all my stacks on lustrate and chain heals on him, and it still won't be enough. If I start healing as he's still running, I pull aggro and die. It's even worse when they try to run to the boss and lock out the trash mobs. I drop Sacred Soil on the really giant pulls if I have an extra aetherflow stack (and time), but I don't know if that's the most efficient way to use an aetherflow stack. I even tried stoneskin + adlo before the first pull. I'm thinking of adding Rouse next time, but honestly I was so panicked trying to heal the tank that I didn't even think to use it at the time.

    Is there something else I should be doing? Or is it just a matter of gear? I'm currently using the Garuda book, Vanya hat and robes (no materia slotted yet), DL hands/belt/pants, Strategos boots, and am working on getting DL jewelry (currently using level 48+ white stuff off the marketboard). The tank's usually close to full DL, though in the most recent run he had about half DL and half WP/AK/some other greens. I'm a little frustrated, because on some runs we wipe enough that it would've just been more efficient to pull fewer mobs. Other runs go okay.

    Anyway: would love some tips on how I could make these runs go smoother.
  2. Justified

    Justified Member

    Likes Received:
    74
    Why would a group even attempt a speed run if not everyone is geared with at least full ilvl70?

    It has nothing to do with you not healing properly, it has everything to do with gear, no worries.
  3. Zheri

    Zheri Active Member

    Likes Received:
    136
    While he's correct that you are a bit undergeared* for speed runs, I hate this type of response because it offers no assistance whatsoever to someone like yourself who is looking for constructive criticism and genuinely wants to improve their play. But that's another rant for another day, and there's a few things you didn't mention that you could be doing.
    1. Don't panic! Try your best to remain calm and approach the situation rationally. Getting flustered will only lead to mistakes.
    2. Stoneskin and Adlo before every pull is a good start; you should continue to do this. Try to sneak an extra Adlo or 2 in before he takes off running to see if you can catch a crit. The shield doubles so that a 900 point heal adds an 1800 point shield.
    3. Assuming your tank is grabbing the mobs with Flash and/or Circle of Scorn, throw him Eye for an Eye after he picks up the 2nd group. If he isn't, kindly ask him to and explain why.
    4. As soon as he stops, Swiftcast your Shadow Flare. It has a persistent slow that is pretty good for trash packs and often overlooked. If you don't have Swiftcast (level 26 THM), get it as it also lets you instantly resurrect someone in combat.
    5. Drop Sacred Soil during Shadow Flare's GCD. The mitigation scales with incoming damage, so in situations like multiple group pulls it will prevent as much or more damage than a Lustrate heals for.
    *Slotting Savage Aim (Crit) materia in your crafted pieces will go a long way toward improving your gear. Don't be afraid to spend big on those Vanya pieces either. A fully melded had is best in slot and a fully melded robe isn't far behind the Argute Gown. You can go cheap on the white jewelry; that will be replaced by Darklight in short order.
  4. ilmaestro

    ilmaestro Well Known Member

    Likes Received:
    606
    The only thing I disagree with there is the order of Shadow Flare and Sacred Soil. You can't have both active at the same time, so I use SS first and Swiftcast SF as SS runs out. Then use Rouse > Fae CDs during the GCD if they're up.
  5. Karyou

    Karyou Newbie

    Likes Received:
    10
    I've certainly been here, so there's no need to feel bad about it. I used to struggle with WP speedruns because I could barely keep the tank alive (or couldn't keep them alive at all), and when I'd ask them to maybe only grab two stacks of enemies instead of three because it was too much for me, I'd get a response of "this way normally works with other healers". Honestly, it's just a matter of slowly getting used to it and getting better gear. The tank needs to be well geared too, if they aren't then it's pointless to try, and having well geared DPS helps to get the enemies down quicker to lighten the burden. Once I got a piece or two of Mythology gear (with the rest being Darklight), I stopped struggling with the three stacks of enemies.

    What I generally do is make sure I always have a panic button and try to space out my stuff appropriately to have them to fall back on. I always save at least one stack of aetherflow for a quick Lustrate, using the other two for Sacred Soil. I do tend to favor throwing up Shadow Flare before Sacred Soil, as the Slow effect does help a lot, but sometimes you need to know when to favor SS over SF too. I save Rouse for if I don't have any stacks left for a Lustrate. The real goal is to not panic, since if we start cracking under pressure the whole thing falls apart. It can definitely be stressful and some players who have only played Tank or DPS or only took Healer to like 30 have no idea. End-game healer can be very hard, and WP speedruns are the first "wake-up call", so to speak.
  6. Nichigo

    Nichigo Content Moderator Content Moderator

    Likes Received:
    790
    I find the most common problem with heals during a pull is that the tank isn't flashing. He's simply running to the mobs to grab their attention and saving his MP for flashes when the group stops.

    I can understand this if there's no bard...but if there's a bard, he should have MP song up so the PLD can maintain MP. If there's no bard, then there's justifiable concern on the Paladin's part as far as MP conservation (especially if he's paired with a geared BLM). This is coming from someone that regularly tanks WP speed runs.

    As Zheri stated, you'll need to let the tank know why he needs to flash the mobs on the pull. If he squeezes out a flash (or lob on single mobs), that gives you room to throw a heal or two his way during the pull.
  7. The47thSen

    The47thSen Well Known Member

    Likes Received:
    729
    I'm using full WP gear, some white jewellery and the Garuda book. Not wasting a single tome on DL. I want my full vanya! :D

    Before the the runs I throw eye for eye, shield.

    Just before I know he'll stop, I use fairy's heal, rouse, immediately followed by a couple heals, shields. Soil and SF once he gets back up to full HP. I'm honestly pushing it rather close but it can be done. I haven't let the tank die yet though I sometimes start too fast/early and the mobs come onto me instead.

    I'm going to have to rearrange my XHB to be more heal focused and play around with it a bit more.
  8. Comrade Questions

    Comrade Questions Active Member

    Likes Received:
    98
    Some WP speed-ish runs go better than others of course, and I can't comment on the healer side of it, but of course gear is a big part of it (one reason I don't like DF groups, not everyone's on the same page, in fact lately almost all WP DF groups I've tried as of late were terrible with the tank being a total **** not looking at the fact that others aren't fully geared, and for some it is a first-time event). I personally don't like WP speed runs at all from DF groups, its cool if everyone's onboard but nobody should "expect" it from a DF group. /rant

    Anyways, there are even some things other members can do that also help. Get a good bard and he can use the Rain of Death which lowers damage dealth by enemies, I always start with that before doing any other AoEs (but a lot don't start with that); it makes a huge difference when you have 6+ enemies on a tank. Maybe ask the bard beforehand (if one's in-group) if he can use Rain of Death on tank pulls to help keep up healing, and also make sure the tank is using flash as well.
  9. Aziel

    Aziel Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Thank for the advice and reassurement, everyone! Eye for an Eye and Rouse seemed to help a bit. Things have gotten better since I was able to upgrade my gear. I play with my FC when I can, but otherwise I tend to queue up in the duty finder because all the people shouting in MD want groups with relics. I noticed that several of you mentioned Shadow Flare, so I'm trying to find a way to work it into my rotation, but even with Swiftcast (and all my defensive buffs up) it feels like the tank could die while I'm trying to cast it. |D

    Edit: I only now reread Zheri's post, and will try the thing with Shadow Flare. :p

    My Vanya robes and hat still don't have any materia slotted at this point -- I'm trying to decide whether to use SA3s, because SA4s are out of my price range (I'm poor), oorrr... I'm just not too sure, in general.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  10. Zheri

    Zheri Active Member

    Likes Received:
    136
    ilmaestro is correct about not overlapping Sacred Soil and Shadow Flare. It's been a while since I've played my SCH and I forgot about that bit. What you really want to do is drop Sacred Soil where the tank is going to stop and use the time it's active to stabilize his health. Once SS wears off, then Swiftcast out Shadow Flare and pop Lustrate during the GCD if needed.

    As far as the Vanya is concerned... Optimal melds on the hat are Savage Aim 3, 2x Savage Might 3, Savage Might 2, and a cheap Quicktongue or Piety 1 or 2 if you're going to bother with the pentameld. The first 4 are the important ones. The chest gets straight Crit in all slots: 4x Savage Aim 3 and a Savage Aim 2 if you want to go big. However, that's extremely expensive and, assuming SCH is your main class, you'll be replacing it with the Argute Gown (Mythology Tome chest) anyway, so just socket as many SA3's as your budget will allow.
    Aziel and ilmaestro like this.
  11. Lodius

    Lodius Active Member

    Likes Received:
    147
    Would like to add... to do WP speed runs it requires everyone to be fully geared (especially the healer).

    I am a WHM with Relic+1 Full Darklight with a few extra iLevel 90 pieces... I still struggle keeping it healed if the tank doesn't cast his defense buffs, etc. (FYI Tanking with Warrior is almost always a disaster for this type of speed run).

    Healing this as a WHM I assume is much easier than SCH...

    so... that's my 2 cents.
  12. Karyou

    Karyou Newbie

    Likes Received:
    10
    I disagree. My friend is a Warrior and he does speed-runs fine. He can handle three stacks of enemies. He has a high HP pool and is very well geared, after all. But people do say that Warriors and Scholars go together while White Mage and Paladins go together. I'm not sure if there is any truth to that, but it's what some people say...

    Not really, so long as the SCH realized they aren't a WHM. Playing Scholar is just as much about preventing and mitigating damage as it is healing it. Adloquem and Sacred Soil must be used for speedruns to go smoothly, and having Stoneskin and Swiftcast as cross-class helps a lot too. Also, don't forget we have a fairy that heals alongside us.
  13. Aziel

    Aziel Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks again, Zheri! I've filled the 'green' materia slots in my hat and robe with your recommendations (and also received a quick lesson from a crafter guildmate about the crit cap). The rest may have to wait for a bit, as I'm rather poor and I actually main a BRD.

    Nichigo, I've been watching the tanks a bit more closely, and you're right, not all of them use Flash as they're pulling groups. Fortunately, those are also the ones that run far ahead of the mobs, and they seem to get hit a little less (maybe). (Sometimes.)

    For what it's worth, my experiences healing warriors have been pretty unmemorable, which I think is probably a good thing. (Unless you're spiritbonding in CM and one of the tanks is a warrior who thinks he's DPS...but in that case he almost never had aggro anyway. I'm sorry, Eos, you deserved so much better. And the WHM kept getting crushed, too.)

    I'm curious: what happens if I drop Sacred Soil and someone else puts a Shadow Flare on top of it?
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  14. ilmaestro

    ilmaestro Well Known Member

    Likes Received:
    606
    That's fine.
  15. Aziel

    Aziel Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks! What exactly happens if I try to cast SS followed by Shadow Flare? Only one of them will work? Which one?


    Also, on a slightly unrelated topic, there have been a few times during the pudding boss (2nd boss in WP) there I got targetted by the boss, then paralyzed and slowed, which then quickly led to my demise. What causes this? Can I avoid it?
  16. Comrade Questions

    Comrade Questions Active Member

    Likes Received:
    98
    The adds (I think white) cause paralysis, not sure if that's an issue here. Also, it is helpful for the Bard to cast Shadowbind when others are targeted (it helps give a few seconds head start to running at least). I don't think the flan/pudding casts paralysis himself, it's likely just a leftover from the adds and perhaps the DPS aren't taking them down quick enough (also stay out of their attack area if possible).

    The add DPS priority should be blue->white->others. Althoug if they're speedrunning I have no idea why they can't bring down the adds within a few seconds.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  17. ilmaestro

    ilmaestro Well Known Member

    Likes Received:
    606
    The second one you cast will overwrite the first.

    Your DPS should be dealing with those adds quickly enough for them to not be a problem, but like the Comrade says if this might not be the case then just stay out of the way and have Leeches ready to fire off on anyone who does get hit. When you say "targetted" by the boss I assume you mean with the crosshair not that you are pulling hate, when that happens just jam on Sprint and run away from the boss in a circle around the edge of the room.
  18. The47thSen

    The47thSen Well Known Member

    Likes Received:
    729
    I've recently mastered the technique of using the fairy to distract/lure away an attacking Tonberry.
  19. ilmaestro

    ilmaestro Well Known Member

    Likes Received:
    606
    I always feel bad when I do that. :( I make sure to unsummon her though, rather than let her die.

Share This Page