Tank Understanding STR vs VIT

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by GeekMatt, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    For those of you who'll hear comments that VIT has replaced STR and jump on the full Fending bandwagon, as well as anyone that hears STR and VIT are equal and think you'll just take your pick of accessories based on secondary stats.

    Before;
    1 STR = 1 Attack Power (AP)

    Now;
    1 STR = 0.45 AP
    1 VIT = 0.45 AP
    (Based on the best calculations atm by a large assortment of players on different servers)

    So with this in mind, it's important to know that tank left side pieces have both VIT and STR, whereas accessories only have one or the other. So you may consider dropping a fending ring that is VIT/PRY/ACC for a slaying ring that is STR/CRIT/DET in order to increase your DPS a tad - and this may truly be a good move for you - however keep in mind 2 things about fending sets when making this decision;
    1. Fending accessories historically have more VIT than DPS accessories have STR. So VIT/CRIT/ACC > STR /CRIT/ACC, for example
    2. VIT is doubly useful because it directly translates into HP. Despite some bad comments by people in the past, there is not, nor has there ever been a such thing as "bad" or "wasted" HP—there was simply times when AP benefited the party more than HP did.
    That said, you may find a time when a slaying ring helps you out, but generally speaking VIT > STR.

    Also, due to the stats being measured at 0.45 and not 1/2, our left side gear offers less AP than it use to despite offering both VIT and STR. Meanwhile our accessories only carry VIT or STR, not both, so our right side gear takes an even larger reduction in AP compared to pre-3.2. Overall, tanks don't hit as hard as they use to. What this means is that tank DPS will count considerably less towards a party's overall damage and those DPS checks will be more heavily dependant on the quality of the DPSers in your party, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't still work on dealing damage because like it or not it's something that was built into the design of all 3 tanks and it will impact how well your party does. Also with the changes in 3.2 making it more convenient for us to stance dance, it's a safe bet that SE expects us to continue to push the boundaries of our own DPS.
     

    Jinzuku and racooperii like this.
  2. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    2,301
    1,431
    48
    More than anything this was a rebalance so Tanks would be more concerned about Tanking than DPSing. It's a "nerf" but it's not a horrible one at that. Just running through some numbers I've done vs what I'm doing now, it's doable and not at all that bad.

    Just means we do slightly less damage in full VIT gear now than full STR gear 3.1 and prior, and we get more HP. If anything it's a win for Tanks, survivability is #2 on the list of job requirements after all :)
     

    GeekMatt likes this.
  3. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

    619
    368
    32
    Ran some numbers and the dps is around ~20% less post 3.2 patch. It's not a huge nerf and I wouldn't even call it that. I can still drop my 10k crit Fellcleves and boast more survivability in Deliverance with VIT instead of full STR build. Therefore less stance dancing is nice. Still going to be playing around with gear setups to get optimum tankage and dps. XD
     

    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  4. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    The nerfiness of it is still frustrating me though. I noticed in Lost City last night that I'm having a much harder time holding aggro in trash pulls (particularly when Unchained and Berserk aren't options) over my FC's resident goon than I used to. I dislike dealing less damage, I dislike that my AP is likely to scale up more slowly than the DPS' and make aggro harder the more we gear, and more than anything else, I dislike having MORE HP to need to heal and LESS POWER to heal it. Equilibrium? Second Wind? Bloodbath? The heal effect of Inner Beast? All weaker than they were. It's frustrating.
     

    Crimson Requiem likes this.
  5. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    2,301
    1,431
    48
    I'm not having a problem with it myself. Sure my hp steals aren't as potent as they used to be, but thats why I have a healer.

    I've gone back to my PLD roots of target cycling my targets and hitting with my Agro combo. I actively have to Tank and manage mobs again, rather than DPS and never worry about my Agro meters (Cause thats how much damage I dealt before)

    I think out of the 3 Tanks Wars are going to feel it the most, but they also had rediculous DPS for a tanking class. It was an inevitable nerf.
     

  6. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    I hear the changes made Pally aggro easier. This is a good thing. I realize they needed it.

    You had the best AOE aggro gen in the game as a DRK. It blew WAR out of the water and that was saying something. But it's not AOE that's giving me trouble. It's the fact that if Unchained and Berserk are on cooldown I'm treading water trying to hold a new add over a good Dragoon. I can't afford to stop and use Maim > Storm's Eye. That's a huge part of how my class plays. It broke my brain to have too small an aggro lead to try and use anything but Butcher's Block combo until the mob was at 15%.

    And yes, we have healers for a reason, but Warriors are enormous HP sinks. ENORMOUS HP sinks. More VIT means proportionally even more HP than it does for DRKs and PLDs because of Defiance's HP-up instead of damage-down effect. I need my self-heals to work well because I can't expect a healer to carry the whole weight with such huge numbers going around. Sure, they still work. I'm not doing super challenging content so it's not like it's gotten me killed. But it's a loss of self-healing potency that comes simultaneously with an increased need for higher healing numbers and that's just not a good thing.
     

  7. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    2,301
    1,431
    48
    Hmmm well I'm sure they're going to tweak the rebalance since it was heavily generalized for all Tanks.

    Not being able to do all of your combo isn't a good thing, and I rarely got to do my regen combo for MP and HP in order to keep up Hate. I'm doing Soul Eater Dark Arts a lot less than I used to which is a 1-1.5k HP restore every 9s.

    My AoE is significantly less effective at Agro and the Abyssal Drain Dark Arts lost about 100-200 HP Regen per Mob which is significant with 10+ Mobs(Was doing between 4-500 Damage and now only 2.5-3.5 Damage.)

    How is it during Bosses? I have a far easier time with a Bosses Agro than Trash at the moment, but that might be because the Agro Combo Dark Arts is a Huge Hate maker still and 2 of those secures the target.
     

  8. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    I had problems with pld TP, not PLD aggro (despite wearing Alex Gordian, law and Ravanna). The improved TP is pretty fantastic.
     

  9. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    Boss hate isn't bad. I think for me personally it's because I don't start a boss without Unchained, Berserk, and Internal Release available, so I can start my big aggro rotation and get my Maim and Storm's Eye in (which, you know, is a significant factor in my damage and therefore hate management...). It's more about getting a good lead from the start, because it's much more difficult to play catch-up now.

    Midas bosses, though, man they hit like a ton of bricks. And my self-heals feel rather more drop-in-the-bucket-y than they used to.

    ^ like most good dishes, still a bit salty
     

  10. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

    619
    368
    32
    Same I never had any issues with holding hate on PLD. The only cases where people may struggle is when DPS is more geared than the tank or when healers AOE spam heals.

    Pretty sure they added more aggro to Definance.

    In any cause I do agree that WAR's self heal aren't what they use to be.

    WAR kind of dominated 1 Vs 1 in PVP because of this reason as well I believe. Or from what I've heard. High dps output, high HP pool, and lots of self healing abilities.

    Hopefully they do some rebalancing on WAR's self heals in PVE.
     

  11. Chooty

    Chooty Adventurer

    15
    9
    14
    Sooo... what does this mean in practice for stats? I must pour all points in VIT now as warrior instead of going for some other mix?
     

  12. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    It means when in doubt, stack VIT, because no other stat measures up to it
     

    Crimson Requiem and racooperii like this.
  13. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

    619
    368
    32
    This is more or less true. It really depends on what other stats are connected to the STR or VIT on a piece of gear.

    Like for accessories where if it's VIT, Parry, and Accuracy. Verses STR, CRIT, and DET and you don't need the extra accuracy. Then definately go with whatever gives you more DPS output. Or at least that's how I'm going to weigh my gear options for tanking from now on. Especially if the extra HP isn't needed.
     

  14. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    They did add more aggro to Defiance, but going from just being a 3/5 STR acc WAR I can tell the buff doesn't make up for the nerf. I'm generating less aggro in Defiance than I used to.

    I can understand WAR needing rebalancing for PVP. I just don't see what good it does to nerf our self-heals in PVE because of it. More HP and less ability to recover HP combine into a kind of poopy-smelling mass under my shoe.

    I'm doing that too. Granted I probably need the extra HP now, because they're balancing for full-Fending tanks, but I couldn't bear to replace my eso Slaying necklace with that awful Parry Fending one...
     

: Pld, drk, war, GLA, MRD, tank, 3.2, VIT, STR

Share This Page