Paladin To Fracture or not to Fracture

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by SunnyTzu, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. SunnyTzu

    SunnyTzu Adventurer

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    It's mostly there in the title. In lieu of an accurate dps parser in a fight where I don't need to burst something down (I've got Royal Authority for that!) I usually roll with keeping up Goring Blade without much overlap and using Royal Authority to dps and some RoH's to shore up enmity and keep the debuff up. Sometimes I do a fracture for gits and shiggles...but really...is it worth it? If not, what skill should replace it?
     

  2. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

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    From my experience, unless you REALLY need that little bit of DPS it's not. PLD already has some TP issues and Fracture has a pretty high cost of 80 if I remember correctly. Plus it interrupts the combos so if you lose it mid combo you're still going to lose some DPS anyways or have to reset the combo for a bigger DPS loss.

    I'd take defensive spells and cool downs over Fracture any day.
     

  3. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    I've never heard a Paladin suggest Fracture as a worthwhile cross-class, due to the short duration for non-MRD/WARs and high TP cost.
     

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  4. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    Not worth it, IMO.
     

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  5. SunnyTzu

    SunnyTzu Adventurer

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    That settles all that then! What skill should be brought in its place?
     

  6. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

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    I liked Mercy Stroke, chance to heal an an off the GCD ability is nice since it won't interfere with the rotation.

    I usually went with Foresight, Stoneskin, Mercy Stroke, Bloodbath and Protect.

    I did protect incase I died and could reapply without having to make the healer take the time to do it.

    And that's my logic behind the cross class skills.
     

  7. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    I'm trying to remember what I crossed... Stoneskin, Mercy Stroke, Foresight, Bloodbath... honestly I'm not sure I ever used whatever I put on that fifth slot. It might've been Fracture. I think I treated it like Summoner cross-classes: there are only so many good ones and the last slot-filler never gets used. (Hi, Surecast. I don't know I'd even remember you're there if I DID need you.)

    You might just save a button, because there really isn't a great fifth cross-class skill.
     

  8. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    Your best options are what @racooperii put, but bloodbath is really lacklustre on PLD due to lousy DPS, so I like to keep Raise on my crossbar for helping out at times out of battle. If I were raiding hardcore as PLD then I'd bother with Bloodbath.
     

  9. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    I always figured that Bloodbath with Fight or Flight as a kind of weak self-regen deal was worth using, and not worth saving, so you could use it when you were relatively high on HP. How often have you actually used Raise? I ask because generally people just respawn if it's between battles, so as to avoid having the Weakness penalty.
     

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  10. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

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    PLDs can't battle raise anyways, so I'd keep BB. Like you said, with FoF it's not a bad regen and it's more mitigation(albeit retroactive) which can fit the kit.
     

  11. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    I use to use it in unison with Fight or Flight for that tiny regen. When I was running pld regularly I was using Raise regularly. Healers rarely remember to Rez someone at the end of a dungeon, and people were always dying in Hunts (as well as FATEs but I was rarely around for FATEs). Then there's @PrincessNewb who would die somewhere and I'd use the eternity ring to port to her for a raise.

    For perspective, Bloodbath returns from your hardest hit (Royal Authority) is like 60 potency. Whm Regen ticks every 3 seconds at 150 potency.

    Again, Bloodbath is better due to lack of options, but it's really lacklustre on a PLD
     

  12. MasterBox

    MasterBox Scion

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    Yes and No

    When I am main tanking I don't use Frcture as often unless I have a decent amount of hate generated.

    However, thinking in DPS terms you can add that extra damage and not trash your combos
    You can have Goring Blade and Fracture on at all times and never lose them.
    Pop CoS every change you get. Also don't forget that you can use CD in between your Global CDs... Anyways

    (Whatever CDs needed) > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > ( Rage of Halone or Royal Athoraty ) > (Sheltron or Available CDs) > Fast Blade > Roit Blade > Goring Blade > (Circle of Scorn or Spirits within) > Fracture > (rinse and repeat)

    Doing this you will come back around in time to use both GB and Frac witha few seconds to spare for dodging or whatever.
    there will be a gap in between when you can use CoS.. however, if you use it every chance you get you will find that it fits in this combo
    Having all 3 DoTs on at the same time can be around 1500 - 2000 dmg per tick. I am ilvl203

    It felt weird to add Fracture to my hotbar and try to mesh it with everything else PLD has to offer
    this is what I came out with and it is not bad nor does it feel like a watse of time..

    Yes you can have that extra kick in dps.. but it doesn't hurt you to not use it.
     

    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  13. nekohime

    nekohime Adventurer

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    Sorry if this is old news but I saw the thread title and I have strong feelings on the matter.

    I have to say no to Fracture on PLD.

    A while back I saw a lot of people complaining about TP issues on PLD and saying they run out at about 2 minutes 30 seconds or so. This didn't seem right to me so I made a list of every rotation I could think of that might possibly be practical and the only way I could find to run out of TP that fast was using Fracture*. That wouldn't be so bad if using Fracture gave a significant boost to damage, but it doesn't. In the best case scenario you lose 30 seconds worth of TP and your TOTAL damage increase by the time you run out is less than a single extra Auto Attack. Even with the super-high DPS requirements of Alexander Savage there's just no way that Fracture on PLD is a good idea, you stab yourself in the foot in the long run and get virtually no benefit in the short run.

    Here's some math :)
    Show Spoiler

    Here's a basic comparison showing the average potency and tp cost of DPS rotations with fracture and without, assuming 2.5 second cooldowns. You can calculate the exact average potency and tp cost of each rotation for your skillspeed using the in-game tooltips.

    Fracture, Goring Blade, Royal Authority, Royal Authority

    2,520 Potency
    640 TP
    25s
    100.80 Pot/s
    25.6 TP/s
    -5.60 TP (total tp lost per second with normal TP regeneration)

    Duration: 178.57s (2 minutes, 58.57 seconds)
    Total: 17,993.81 (total potency dealt before TP reaches zero)


    Goring Blade, Royal Authority, Royal Authority (GB loses 1 tick)

    2,260 Potency
    560 TP
    22.5s
    100.44 Pot/s
    24.89 TP/s
    -4.89 TP (total tp lost per second with normal TP regeneration)

    Duration: 204.5s (3 minutes, 24.50 seconds)
    Total: 20,539.98 (total potency dealt before TP reaches zero)


    As you can see, adding one Fracture to the rotation only adds 0.36 potency per second and causes you to burn TP much faster, greatly lowering your total damage output. I could not find any way to work in more than one Fracture that did not result in lower pot/s than simply not using it at all. The main reason that Fracture can improve DPS is not from it's own DoT, but because adding an extra GCD to your rotation allows Goring Blade to completely finish before being reapplied, guaranteeing that the last tick will never be lost.

    I'm not going to post the numbers for it, but I also compared rotations for pre-Heavansward content, where all we do is spam Halone combo forever. The story is much the same. The DPS boost is a tiny bit better but TP burns even faster because you don't have Goring Blade every third combo slowing down your TP use.


    * Specifically, using Fracture AND having high skillspeed are needed to run out that fast, unless you are also spamming Shield Bash or picking up adds with Shield Lob and not using Flash afterward, but that's neither here nor there.
     

    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  14. Chooty

    Chooty Adventurer

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    let me try to add this to the discussion without starting a new topic:

    What about slowing skills?

    Like Feint (as maurader/gladiator, can't do it as job right) ,
    or haymaker?

    I know they are probably not a better choice than other skills; but if there anybody using them creatively as a tank?
     

  15. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    Haymaker is useless because it's on global and will interrupt any combo. Plus I don't think it was that great to start with but I can't remember the numbers on it.

    As for Feint and such, well, perhaps there are creative uses of non-tank, non-pgl, non-whm cross-classes, but I don't think most people find it worth the trouble to think it through all that hard when they'll lose access at 30. Plus it's bad to get reliant on something you'll lose. For instance, I originally wanted Invigorate for my Marauder when I was just starting, but stopped leveling before 22 when I realized I couldn't keep it as a Warrior. Instead I learned to manage my TP better. It would have been an unpleasant transition if I'd already been accustomed to bailing myself out with Invigorate.
     

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  16. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

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    Bluntly put, this game doesn't really allot a whole lot of creativity in play style. There's an optimal skill list and rotation for every class and deviating from it isn't met with open arms.

    Slow is pretty useless in my opinion, a lot of bosses are immune to status effects which boils most fights to Avoid AoE and DPS the hell out of it.
     

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