The Tank Experience - DPS You Piss Me Off

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by AgelessDaisy, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. AgelessDaisy

    AgelessDaisy Scion

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    For many year I've not really given a rat's ass about tank jobs. Simply because I thought they were dark soulless husk. There is a very damn good reason for it. DPS. You piss me off so god damn much. It's one thing if you're not in a dungeon and you're just messing around with pulls. But I'm starting to see why DPS is called "Dirty DPS." From my old viewpoint as a Healer, things were very black and white. All I did was heal things and not really pay mind to what people did. As a tank that view is flipped upside down and put into full contrast. You really get to see who is pulling their weight on the mobs and who is slacking, you get to see who is going to piss you off at the beginning of a dungeon. Just from their actions. I've taken tanking up and by god it has given me some serious clarity in terms of dealing with the player base. Tanks have it rougher in the update. We pretty much have to keep our mouths shut and ears open, or we'll be voted the hell out of the instance.

    Ran Halatalii today and it took every ounce of my being not to cuss a single DPS out, why? Because they kept trying to pull with Scathe. Didn't give me much time to mark, let alone let them know how I tanked. It got even more annoying and had me twitching when they decided to be cute and cast cancel every time I went to pull. That just irked me, since I didn't know if they were going to accidentally slip up and tag a mob, then I end up having to clean up the mess because they want to be funny. Now from my own perspective tanks have to deal with the s**t DPS does in DF simply because you'll look bad if you let someone die for their own stupidity. Having to tell people to not run ahead and hold their god damn hands when trying to tell them which mobs to hit when there is clearly a large number marked 1 2 3 etc etc over a mobs head. I now see why tanks are so bitter and angry. Because it's the sheer amount of stupidity people bring to the table and then hand it over to you like it's alright, I honestly want to say I am SORRY if I've ever bad mouthed someone as a tank. I really do, the job isn't easy and it's sure as hell not forgiving.
     

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  2. CJ_pt

    CJ_pt Crystal Brave

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    I remember when I first joined these forums (and the game) and in someone said in a thread "you need to try it to see from another PoV". This is absolutely true and that's what you're going through.

    Tanking ain't easy. You basically have to lead the party through a dungeon you may not know, keep all mobs on you, even when dps don't respect your marks, position mobs and bosses, and everyone's counting on you to do that. You "can't" mess up, all eyes are on you. A DPS can mess up, no one will notice. Or even better, a good tank will make up for the dps's mistake and it will seem like nothing happened (or it will go wrong and all the blames go on the tank lol).

    After a couple of runs tanking, I "learned" to protect myself from these "events":
    - Someone runs and pulls mobs, their problem (accidents happen, of course).
    - DPS don't follow my marks (although I find it hard to be so OBVIOUS when there are BIG numbers on mobs lol)? Pull them once, pull them twice? Doesn't work? Too bad, let them be.

    My concern is the Healer. As long as I don't let him get aggro or take a punch, all goes well for me.
    Don't take me for an "arrogant" tank, but it's hard to try doing your job well when other players don't help you at all.

    But don't worry, from my experience as you play with more "experienced" players, things tend to improve.

    Now for my other PoV: I'm leveling Bard now, and I see many mistakes new tanks make but also how hard it is sometimes to follow their targets when they don't mark...
    You seem to be doing that ok, so it's a big plus for you :) Too bad other players aren't coping lol
     

    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
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  3. AgelessDaisy

    AgelessDaisy Scion

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    Oh I got tired of the DPS pulling with Scathe. They pulled again on accident and I let them sweat a bit before deciding to step in, watched the mob rip through them like wet rice paper. It was entertaining to say the least bit. The ideals behind tanking are rough, I'm still having a hard time doing my rotations correctly, I don't have time to deal with people's s**t in a dungeon. I'm not sure if it's hurtful or not to just leave the dungeon or just put my foot down someone's throat and hope they get the damn message. Today was my first of probably many more to come annoying tank experiences. I think I will just be the silent tank who just pulls mobs and doesn't wait for DPS and watch them get angry. But then again I change my methods based on who is in the party. If people actually listen to me then I have no problem letting people pull a bit early. It's especially nice if there is someone with tank experience helping me out. But if you're a DPS and you're not even remotely experienced in tanking, why the hell are you pulling ahead of me and tagging mobs? It also doesn't help when the healers conspire against you with the DPS. (I've done it.) So I have to be incredibly nice and I've even started taking on Andrew Ryan's "Would you kindly."
     

  4. Gara Bloodreaver

    Gara Bloodreaver Scion

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    Maybe its just your experience tanking, for me its been laughable. The hardest part for me has been remembering which way to go in a dungeon I have been in for a long time. And bosses? Get aggro, mash buttons, zzz, wake up and see the boss go down. My biggest issue has been tp management as a marauder.
     

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  5. Bizant

    Bizant Scion

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    Just a token shout out for the DPS guys who aren't idiots. I always let the tank call the shots, and try my best just to be his/her personal killing machine. I think that's the easiest for everyone. At the end of the day, that's what a DPS is.

    But I know you're aware that there are some decent DPS folks out there. I definitely sympathise with the tank nightmare. I've never even tried it, but I can imagine it must be pretty rough to deal with moronic DPSers.
     

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  6. Hulvein Blitz

    Hulvein Blitz Crystal Brave

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    One bad experience, doesn't hold enough weight to assume all DPS are like that.

    Sounds like you landed in with the trolls.

    Disclaimer: Not saying you think like that.
     

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  7. Nichigo

    Nichigo Content Moderator

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    The DPS/Tank relationship is give and take. You've admitted to having trouble doing your rotations...that translates into it being easier for DPS to pull off of you. It's on the DPS for not watching their threat meters, but it's also on you for not having a consistently optimal threat generating rotation. Both parties need to understand that neither are at their prime (i'm assuming you're lower level), and need to make adjustments.

    Granted, if they were pulling with scathe after you telling them to wait for you, then that's a whole different story. The DPS in your description sound like high level alts that are just being inconsiderate. In cases like these though, you might want to look at it as a challenge. Even at that level, it's entirely possible to hold group hate without marking an order or getting the first pull...especially with a warrior. I'm currnetly leveling my warrior up as well, and I typically don't even mark. I just go in, grab group hate, and let the DPS have their way while trying to manage enmity as needed. It makes things a little more entertaining. :D
     

  8. nobopyon

    nobopyon Crystal Brave

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    I am curious, how "sync down" really works well..?

    Like if ppl do low dungeon roulette with ilvl90 gears dps and joined to newly L15 tank... in Sastasha?
     

  9. CJ_pt

    CJ_pt Crystal Brave

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    The gear is also adjusted, stats go down according to the dungeon lvl :) Must have some kind of algorithm though...
     

    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  10. Kredo

    Kredo Crystal Brave

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    I have been a Paladin for a while and I currently have my warrior to lvl 46. Ageless I understand your troubles but don't take it out on all DPS. I have done MANY dungeon runs and it is always a different issue when something goes wrong. Yeah I may have the occasional DPS pulling things on purpose and running ahead, but those people are few for me. Also if the keep doing it I let them tank and tell the healer not heal them, let them die and they learn their lesson. Sometimes I have healers who don't heal the tank as priority then let me die because they feel the need to dps(dont do this if its a large mob). In most cost when tank dies everyone dies so keep tank alive. Now from the dps perpective I don't mind if a tank doesn't mark but if they lose hate on something because of it then it is not the dps fault completely, because the tank left it up to the dps to choose their targets. I love warrior because of its crowd control and they are awesome for it. I am glad I played as Paladin first but I feel warrior is much better to play with and could actually partially dps.

    I guess what I am trying to see is you will have your moments but you will have a lot better experiences in the future, more good than bad. Sometimes I get angry with myself when I can't hold a situation. Then I realize more than halfway through a dungeon arriving at the second boss most times, I realize I did most of the dungeon without using Defiance or Shield Oath.
     

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  11. nobopyon

    nobopyon Crystal Brave

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    I guess my question is if they sync well enough for dps not pull off the hate from L15 tank..?
     

  12. Bizant

    Bizant Scion

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    I don't think it syncs that well, no. I've often ended up in a low level dungeon using the Low Level Duty Roulette, and pulled mobs from the tank easily. Whether it's because the tank was still learning, or my stats didn't get synced as much as they should, I'm not sure.
     

  13. nobopyon

    nobopyon Crystal Brave

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    yeah, similar thing happened to me as well, and I can't quite sure if it was me doing wrong or... so now I switch to lowest class i have when I do low dungeon roulette.
     

  14. Sekwal

    Sekwal Adventurer

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    Im a Pugilist and Im new to mmos so when the dungeon or boss fight starts I always ask the tank where he/she wants me to be and I follow...So far so go in dungeons and what not...
     

  15. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

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    You will run into plenty of DPS who want to pull, who dont want to follow a kill order, and so on. The important thing to remember though is that at a low level you dont have all the optimal abilites to create optimal threat rotations. Be sure you to put your bonous stats into strength and utalize overpower and flash to their fullest. That is to say you dont want to spam them cause you will run out of resources but use them generously.

    When I sync down to tank a low level roulett or to even help a friend, I tomahawk the primary target, move in such a way as to cluster the other adds, use over power X2 and then flsh after 2 rotations of heavy swing - skull sunder so for the most part my rotation in Halatali for example looks like this.

    Tomahawk > OP > OP to lock in good threat

    Then

    Heavy swing > Skull sunder > Heavy swing > skull sunder > Flash

    Following this rotation I do not lose aggro even to people spamming AoE damage and AoE heals.
     

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  16. GenRiur

    GenRiur Crystal Brave

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    As you gain experience as a tank eventually even with stupid dps you wont loose aggro. I generally just go mindless in PUGs now and pull, keep aggro, watch something on TV until dead, rinse and repeat.
     

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  17. Kredo

    Kredo Crystal Brave

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    Sounds good to me. I was thinking of putting my points into strength but I am not sure.
     

  18. Gara Bloodreaver

    Gara Bloodreaver Scion

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    I put 10 points into vit....am I going to die?
     

  19. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

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    Yep, all strength till level 50 then swap your stats to all Vit

    You are gunna die anyways, no one likes a tank without pants
     

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  20. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    You don't have to do any such thing. If they want to tank on their BLM, or whatever job I let them. When they have a nice dirt nap they will get the message loud and clear. No need for anything to be said or any action to be taken. I take the same stance when I'm on my healer. If they want to pull mobs I go ahead and let them take a nice dirt nap too.
     

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