Bard Playing BRD post-50

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by Billy Batsonn, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. Billy Batsonn

    Billy Batsonn Crystal Brave

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    Hey everybody, I'm only lvl 54 at the moment and figured I'd post how I been playing so far with the new changes and moves (most likely wrong) and see other people are going about it.

    First thing I guess are the changes to the old moves "Barrage" and "Rain of Death". Barrage now making the the next non-cric skill go twice ( No Bloodletter or Mercy End :c ) I've been using it with Heavy Shot after buffs are set. Also Wide Volley not giving free Rain of Death anymore but the move is tied with Bloodletter recast. So i have been placing DoTs at the start of +4 pulls and using WV and RoD when it proc, which seem better then before in my opinion or maybe I'm just lucky. Also RoD being tied to BL let me be able to move it to my extended bar, since I can look at BL on my main.

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    The new song, Wanderer's Minuet , that boost your attack have been nice. Since it add cast time ( a second?) and stop auto-attack, I turn it off on AoE heavy dungeon fights and on solo when there too many enemies to stand still and take a hit or two. other wise it on.

    It doesn't add cast times to GCDs that are not the new moves, so my rotation pretty much the same with the added cast time. Though i'm not sure if it be better to turn on WM before the start of my rotation or after.

    I'm also not sure how I'm going to place the new GCD on my bar as I unlock them, so that I can watch all of them.

    but that how I'm playing so far, if anyone have any tips for a better play style happy to hear it. Cant wait for lvl 56 and Iron Jaws!
     

    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  2. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    I am leveling bard and pld same time, so i am behind you in leveling (not to mention i am putting crafting as higher priority and i am currently on a business trip, so i cant really play). But i have a taste of the new AOE changes. I agree with you that we now need wind bite and venomous bite active to proc the RoD.

    However, i wonder if you have similar thoughts as mine here. I found that the wind bite and venomous bite actually kill of a single mob too fast, which results in losing my proc. so i think it's better to split up the attacks on different mobs. I.e. wind bite on mob1, venomous bite in mob2, then wide volleys on mob3.... This way mob1 wont just die before everything else resulting in no more RoD procs.
     

  3. Billy Batsonn

    Billy Batsonn Crystal Brave

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    I came to that same decision too after the first couple of dungeons, right now I'm placing VB on the first mob grab by the tank, second mob with WB after the AoE, and then WV on the third
     

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  4. Billy Batsonn

    Billy Batsonn Crystal Brave

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    Update: Lvl 56 and loving Iron Jaw and got a couple of things added to my play style, which if you have better idea i'm all ears. cause I'm making this all up as I go along lol

    First thing is my opening right now is Raging Strike> Hawk's Eye > Straight Shot> Blood Letter > Internal Release > Blood for Blood > Barrage > Empryreal Arrow (Been doing about 2.6k on this) > DoTs > Straight Shot > Heavy Shot and then i'm just using Iron Jaws when VB or WB is at about 6 sec left to reset the timers, uses Bloodletter, Blunt Arrow, Mercy End and proc Straight Shot when there up because they're not effected by cast time (no point of touching repel shot unless I'm right next to the mob, with no autoattack or running and attacking, your waste damge time), otherwise it Heavy shot if Empryreal Arrow isn't up and Straight Shot buff doesn't need to be reset.

    Second thing is the FC pointed it out it probably just as good to use Quick Nock now instead of Wide Volleys. QN take less TP and does the same amount of damage WV. With VW now not being able to proc Rain of Death, hard to see the point of it

    Iron Jaws is on my extended bar since it only got a 2.5 cooldown, no need for me to be watching it

    but that all i got so far
     

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  5. Billy Batsonn

    Billy Batsonn Crystal Brave

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    Update on BRD coming to hopefully fix our DPS problem and make WP actually helpful
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Carbonyl

    Carbonyl Crystal Brave

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    Until I see some solid numbers by some people I'm sticking to normal bard play. The ability to stick and move is too valuable in my opinion. I'd rather take a hit in DPS than make a healer take focus on me for a spell. Side note: love what they did to barrage, hate what they did to RoD.
     

  7. Billy Batsonn

    Billy Batsonn Crystal Brave

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    Hey I reached level 60 a bit ago and liking the fixes on Bard
    :cheer:
    forgot all about this page lol

    but here an update if anyone care. With the buffs they added I've been told its a clear dps lost with WM turned off and my opinion I feel the difference, my rotation change some from before but still sticking with my own till I find a good looking guide.

    Opener: Raging Strike> Hawk's Eye > Straight Shot> Blood Letter > Internal Release > Blood for Blood > Windbite> Blunt Arrow> Venomous Bite> Sidewinder>Bloodletter (if proc)> Barrage > Empryreal Arrow > Flame Arrow >Iron Jaws> Heavy Shot > Straight Shot

    I been using Heavy Shot before Straight at the end because there a chance I can proc a cric Straight Shot with no cast time. I Also thought of moving Flame Shot sooner but it usually messes up the flow for myself. After this I'm keeping up VB and WB with Iron Jaws when I see them at about 5, it probably better to use it later but this way I feel like I miss it less and if cast is cut off I still have time to try it again.

    After this I'm keeping up Straight Shot and while using Empryreal Arrow (when ever Barrage cooldown is up I use it with this move) , Siderwinder, Bloodletter, and Blunt Arrow when they are up and continuing to reset DoTs when when they -5 sec left. Otherwise I'm using Heavy Shot

    and as for moving and shooting, dodging havent really been any problems with it unless its a really crazy AoE phase in a dungeon ( looking at you Neverreap :testify:) if an AoE appear under me while I'm the middle of a cast I got plenty of time to get out after the shot goes off and if it at the start, move out the AoE and use Bloodletter/proc Straight Shot/ Blunt Arrow while moving out the way.

    But if it a phase where I feel like I can't stand still for one dang second, I drop WM on that phase and run & shoot till the phase is over and from what I played so far even with the new 15 sec recast time, WM usually up again by the time I can stand still again
     

    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
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  8. Carbonyl

    Carbonyl Crystal Brave

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    Sounds like a decent round up. I too have come to embrace Wander's Minuet as of late. My opener is a little different due to macros.

    Quelling Strikes>Raging>Hawk>Internal>B4B>StraightShot>Barrage>Empryeal>Venom>Blunt>Windbite>Sidewinder>Flame. then just keeping things up with Iron while spamming basic attacks.

    I have Raging Strikes, Hawk Eye, and Internal Release all macro'd to 1 button since i'm on a PS4 so i just spam until all 3 are up. I use Quelling strikes as its timer (aside from its obvious utility) so once that is ready to go i know raging strikes is ok.

    Heavy Strike, Bloodletter, and Misery's end are also macro'd to 1 button so i just spam that as my "Basic attacks" if either Blood letter or Misery is proc'd they will be used.
     

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  9. Ish

    Ish Scion

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    So much hate for Minuet over at the SE forums, lol
    I pretty much leave it up most of the time and have no issues, then again i am used to cast times as i also play Blm.
    I very much am one against macros for any sort of dps but buffs is fine.
    There very slight delays in using macros which in turn is a loss of dps.
    But yeah i also am on PS4 and am running out of space, i have always found using more then 2 hotbars problematic.
    Also i do not use sidewinder as soon as a dot is applied, usually i go windbite>venemeous bite> another attack (could be Empyreal Arrow) and then sidewinder
    Just seems to work better and get better results in overall damage from tests i have done.
    All in all i am happy with the recent changes to Bard and think we are in a better spot now.
     

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  10. Carbonyl

    Carbonyl Crystal Brave

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    I haven't noticed any delays with the basic attack macros, in fact i would argue it increases DPS because you dont have to check to see if the procs are up so you can concentrate on other abilities. But thats merely personal opinion.

    One of the best things about recent changes is being able to grab mobs more easily due to Barrage's double hit. Especially in A4 from a healer or such.

    One thing I would change is make iron Jaws an instant cast. I would even accept it doing no additional damage and just keeping the DoTs up.
     

  11. Billy Batsonn

    Billy Batsonn Crystal Brave

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    I try to avoid marcos myself too becouse of earlier uses of it, delay and even lost moves got me but that just me. I use Sidewinder after EA after my opening a lot, I feel like I do more damage the other way idk why but honestly it shouldn't matter cause the same buffs are up both ways. Getting about 3k with it at the start at the moment with crit. I love my damage and I don't mind cast times at all but healing help with that. But yea Iron Jaws is a pain sometime, thing the only boss I kept dot up the whole fight so far is the mini boss in A1
     

  12. Ish

    Ish Scion

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    Sorry to say but it has been tested many times over that using macros is a dps loss. I am not at all trying to argue and if it works great for you, then that is what matters :)
    I was trying out to use sidewinder after iron jaws yesterday, but think i will stick to how i was using it.
     

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  13. Carbonyl

    Carbonyl Crystal Brave

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    Oh no i totally believe you. I just never took the time to notice. Makes me wonder what i could have been doing all along. So many arrows left unshot, so many organs left unpunctured.
     

  14. Ish

    Ish Scion

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    And maybe so many knees that could of had an arrow to them?
    haha
     

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  15. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    I'm now 56 Bard... Hopefully, I'll have it 60 soon, then I can fully participate in this discussion!
     

  16. Carbonyl

    Carbonyl Crystal Brave

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    Silly Caimie, Bards don't craft.:glee:
     

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  17. Adonsa

    Adonsa Crystal Brave

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    Experimenting Around with Wanderers Minuet

    Hi,

    Okay, i use W/Min most of the time now, and all the time in Ex Roulette,
    having been admonished to do so, and getting used to it.
    I love Emperial [Imperial?] Arrow, and so that's why i default to leaving W/Min on all the time.

    So, W/Minuet is supposed to bump up damage, so they say. While doing clan hunts
    here's some experimenting results, and I don't have a dps-meter and refuse to get one.

    Approached monster
    W/Min turned off.
    Heavy shot only, nothing else
    Takes 7 shots, monster dead.

    Approached monster
    W/Min ON
    Heavy shot only
    Takes 9 shots to kill

    I did this over and over and over, same results.

    Next i tried adding Windbite and Venom

    Venom
    Windbite
    Heavy Shot
    until monster dies.

    Again with W/Min.
    Takes one more heavy shot with W/Min turned on.

    Tried it many times, close to same results.

    Well, i still use W/Min in order to use Emperial arrow, but the sacrifice is the added cast time and tricky AoE dodging.
    Subjectively speaking, I have to believe the W/Min is slightly better than not using it, thanks to Emp.Arrow. I tried experimenting
    on a striking dummy, but couldn't tell for sure what was going on.

    AoE Dodging, tricky. If I dodge too quick, my DPS is cancelled, and I look bad to others in party.
    Waiting for the cast time can get me in the AoE too long. Anticipating "just the right time" to shoot and dodge, while under the influence of W/Min
    is taking a bit of practice to get it down.

    Here's one of my rotations (please correct me) which I do without macros.
    After targeting the tank's target

    Foe Requiem (if BLM SMN are in party)
    Flaming Arrow
    Emp. Arrow
    Wind and Venom
    Straight Shot
    Heavy Shot
    (something else like Bloodletter, while waiting on the cast time for Emp Arrow to come back)
    Emp Arrow

    I'll preface it with a buff like Hawk or raging or something if I remember to :)

    Or i might start it with windbyte and venom

    I've been varying the rotation to try to get a feel for what seems to work best; I want
    to use Emp Arrow any chance i can.

    So, i'm still trying to optimize a good default rotation.

    Please comment on this, any advice [on living with W/Minuet] will be most appreciated.
     

  18. Billy Batsonn

    Billy Batsonn Crystal Brave

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    I have W/Minuet on 24/7 now these days, I don't even need to drop it on AoEs heavy bosses now that I'm use to to them either. Timing when you can move still get me rarely but So far moving right when the animation for the move start works for me.

    I don't know how much to say about rotation becouse I never sat down and compared different ones but one thing to remember is buffs effect you DoTs, so have all those up before setting your first VB and WB. My opener is with that in mind so that full buff DoTs are up for long as possible at the start

    Opener: Raging Strike> Hawk's Eye > Straight Shot> Blood Letter > Internal Release > Bloodfor Blood > Windbite> Blunt Arrow> VenomousBite> Sidewinder> Barrage> Empryreal Arrow > Iron Jaws> Flame Arrow>Heavy Shot > Straight Shot

    I use Empryreal Arrow whenever the cool down is up also but will wait a sec to use it sometime if I see a buff or Barrage is about to be off cooldown.

    Also whenever I get a buff off cooldown, I use Iron Jaws right after I popped it to buff the DoTs already on the on the mob.
     

    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
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  19. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    That seems like an optimal rotation to me! Thanks for sharing!

    I'm still learning my 60 Bard rotation! But I already find buffs+Barrage+Empyreal Arrow sooooo strong! Really loving it! I once tried to group all the buffs together with it. They did give rise to an amazing Empyreal Arrow, but the buff then all fall off together, and my DPS dropped to crap. Also, grouping all buffs together wasted a lot of firing time. Even though our cast time now on Wanderer's Minuet is much slower than before, "buffs" can still be activated while the GCD's cooldown timer is "swinging" on the buttons. Thus, I believe "weaving buffs" like you do here is still better than grouping them all together for 1 big Empyreal.

    Iron Jaws & Sidewinder are so awesome too! But with these two skills based on Windbite & Venomous Bite, it becomes so important to keep renewing their timers with Iron Jaws! In the past, we can let them fall off 1 or 2 seconds, and we can still easily re-apply them instantly. Now it becomes more critical that we must use Iron Jaw before the timers even get close to zero. Due to the "cast time" now for all these skills, renewing any fallen "bite" are quite a pain. I might need to re-arrange my hotbar to make sure Iron Jaws becomes one of the most easily pressed buttons... It's a button that we simply can't miss the fire timing.

    Not to mention, the random renewing of Blood Letter / Rain of Death are both depending on the two active "bites". It's simply not acceptable now for any downtime for the bites, or our Bard DPS will drop to crap.
     

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  20. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    This is a very interesting experiment. I am going to investigate this as well, and try to kill some monsters with or without the Minuet.

    But anyway, one of the biggest, biggest, biggest advantage of Wanderer's Minuet is to combo buffs+barrage+Empyreal Arrow. If you don't try to add in Barrage, you're not doing it right (because the damage is 3 folds!). Well, if Barrage is on cooldown, you still wanna pump out that Empyreal arrow alone anyway, so you don't waste it. Sidewinder is also extremely powerful when buffed. There's no reason not to include it in your rotation when the two bites are active.

    Carbonyl & Billy's rotations seem pretty optimal to me. I'm gonna try use their rotations. Perhaps you might wanna try that too!

    However, despite how I think Wanderer's Minuet will give rise to overall much stronger DPS after running through Billy's rotation, I have a feeling in the first 10 seconds, it's possible that WITHOUT Wanderer's Minuet is actually stronger due to faster cast time and availability of auto-shots. Unless you do what I did before - uses all the buffs + barrage + empyreal arrow, and that will just give rise to 1 crazy shot that easy does over 5K damage, which can happen within the first few seconds of a fight. In this case, your DPS will be insanely higher than any other DPS classes in that few seconds (and will likely pull aggro unless you use Quelling Strikes), and definitely higher than not using Minuet as well.
     

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
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