Party Finder Etiquette

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CROSS†CHANNEL, Sep 4, 2015.

  1. CROSS†CHANNEL

    CROSS†CHANNEL Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    12
    20
    11
    So it's been a few weeks since my last thread in which I ask stupid questions so I think it's time for another one! :D I'll start this off by thanking all replies for their assistance in getting my brains filled with knowledge.

    Now down to serious business. I'm going to be reaching level 60 in a week or two and the time is fast approaching were I can't just DF for anything I want to run. I'll probably need to use the Party Finder for stuff, but I strongly get the sense that (at least on Brynhildr) it's extremely noob unfriendly. Most EX primal groups and other groups include lines like "know the fight" "mistakes get kicked" "not your clear party" "don't come to get carried" etc etc etc... I know enough to stay away from them, at least until I git gud as they say.

    What I don't get is how to approach other parties. I imagine joining a learning party with no experience is perfectly ok (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but what exactly defines a clear party? I'm assuming that means people in the party will not have completed the content, but even the clear parties seem noob unfriendly and say that one should know the fight. I've always taken the view that I don't know a fight until I've cleared it at least 3 times, but am I thinking about this the wrong way? If I watch/read a guide and join a clear party without having run it, am I asking for a kick? If I have run something but not beaten it, how close should I be to completion when I join a clear party? A final question, is a farm party only for those who have already cleared something? If I join an EX primal pony farm as a i150+ level 60, is that good enough to get around a lack of experience or is that incredibly rude?

    I'll confess that I'm a bit scared here. DFing Bismarck hard involved a good deal of rage at my bad heals (pretty sure I was the only non clear when I got through so I guess I was one of those people who got carried) and I'm peeing myself over the hate I'm probably going to get before clearing Bismarck/Ravana EX and Alexander normal (much gitting gud will be necessary before even attempting savage I hear lol). I'm also paranoid about making a bad reputation for myself on the server as someone not good enough for content so I really want to avoid the noob phase as much as possible.

    Any suggestions as to how to get around this (assuming there is a way)? I'm aware of simple solutions such as asking friends/FC/making a learn party myself but I like to avoid asking for favors and I'm a bad salesman/leader so I try to not be the one to make a party.

    Sorry for dumb questions. Google didn't seem to help me here. Thanks again for your help.

    /paranoia
     

    Caimie Tsukino and daztora like this.
  2. Bizant

    Bizant Scion

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    390
    320
    31
    You're not necessarily thinking about it wrong, you're just thinking about it unconventionally :hmm:

    Here's the conventional thinking, for better or worse. There are roughly 3 situations you might find yourself in when attempting difficult raids/trials:
    1. You are completely new to the raid/trial, or you've only run it a couple of times. You're not confident in the mechanics, and you feel like you need a little or a lot of practice before you can clear it. At this point, you should be looking for learning parties in the PF (but see the note below this numbered list).
    2. [this one is key] You haven't cleared the raid/trial yet, but you know the mechanics well, and you're confident you can perform your job during this raid well, and you very rarely die. The only reason you haven't cleared it yet is because you haven't found a good enough party. You know that if you take on this trial/raid with other people who are in your position, you will clear it. It sounds like a subtle, hard-to-define or hard-to-identify skill level, but believe me, you'll know when you're there. You absolutely will. At this point, you should be looking for a clear party.
    3. You've cleared the raid/trial at least once before, and you're very confident that you can handle it. We all make mistakes occasionally, so there's a chance you could mess something up, but you're pretty confident you won't. At this point, you can join a farming party if you want to farm it.
    NOTE: When you're at the level of point 1, you might not find many learning parties in the PF. That's probably because you can just use DF for pretty much the same thing. That's how I operate. If I want to get started on a raid or trial, and I can't get a FC party together (which is often, since I'm on a weird timezone), I get into DF and just practice there. The assumption going into DF is that there will be people who are new to the content, and you probably won't clear it, so it's much like a learning party in PF. It's still fun to go into DF even when you're at point 2 though. When you clear a really hard trial in DF, it's a great feeling.

    So yeah, I always encourage people to use the DF. Be aware that some people are mean, but that doesn't matter. You're there to learn, and that's absolutely what the DF is for. There are way more nice people than nasty losers, so you'll be fine.

    I wouldn't worry too much about your reputation, either. As long as you're trying your best and you have a good attitude, which I'm sure you do, you'll be golden.

    FINAL NOTE AND I'M SO SORRY THIS IS A HUGE ESSSAY; There are lots of Brynhildr people on this forum. If you're not in the Realm LS yet, ask ... erm, @Cyn Romanace for an invite (it is Cyn right?). If you're worried about trying something, ask in there and people will be very happy to help. I certainly will, although as I said, I'm on a weird timezone.
     

  3. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

    Server:
    Mataeus
    596
    774
    34
    Yep! like @Bizant said, if you need an invite to the realm forum LS, hit me up in game. My in game name is Cyn Romanace. Also you can reach out to @praysolace @Jinzuku @racooperii and get an invite as well
     

  4. CROSS†CHANNEL

    CROSS†CHANNEL Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    12
    20
    11
    I'm gonna have to remember this one! I'm not wrong, just unconventional! :D

    But, seriously, thanks for the advice. I'm in the LS and I'll be sure to ask if I need any help!

    Thanks again!
     

    Bizant likes this.
  5. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

    Server:
    Mataeus
    596
    774
    34
    A good place to start is youtube. Watch the videos for the encounters. This will give you a rough idea of what to expect when going into the fight. You will get the basic idea behind the fight, what to watch out for, and how the fight mechanics function.

    Also look to your FC for your first run or so. I find the best way to get experience without hostilities is to seek aid from your guild. If you do not have a guild, look for one that offers help. The FC I am in is fairly helpful and has been great for learning new encounters befor jumping into party finder.

    Also as Bizant mentioned, the realm forum LS is typically full of people willing to teach you and help you learn stuff, my self included. I am always willing to tank for people who need to learn things cause I will move at a slow pace so you can get your footing.
     

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  6. Maaja

    Maaja Moderator

    Server:
    Bryn, Siren
    343
    348
    39
    Both Biz & Cyn gave good advice. I think the thing that people in DF/PF fail to remember is that we all had a starting point. There was a time when we all had to learn how to do something. Going in with some idea helps, and I watch videos, but I need to be IN it to learn it. I'm currently working on Ravana Ex & that feels like utter chaos to me (only worked on it twice). I was explaining the fight to a friend of mine who doesn't game & I spoke of many platform gaming bosses & how they have a pattern & how these are typically much more complicated than one of those. (she called while I was in the fight & I was ll "can't talk now, fighting a big boss!" - that was why I felt the need to explain it when I called her back. :p )

    I have found, in my experience, those people who are intolerant of others have probably already spent a good deal of time on all 3 steps of PF that Biz listed. When I am learning something that can't be DF, I will sometimes start my own learning group. This tends to bring in helpers & new people to the fight. Biz's steps are spot on, tho. Clear parties tend to have people who have cleared with people who have been in the fight often enough to feel comfortable with it.

    If I ever get back to Bryn... (I'm so sorry I haven't been around! I miss you guys - haven't even played in 3 weeks til yesterday), I'd be one of those people willing to help with just about anything. :)
     

  7. charyn

    charyn Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    19
    66
    16
    There aren't any rules set in stone, and the tolerance of parties can often depend on one impatient person ruining morale. But the 3 points Biz mentioned are definitely the sort of stuff I kept in mind when I started joining PF groups. I can only share my personal experiences and recommendations, but I think it's great that you care about it enough to ask for opinions!
    In a clear party for current EX primals, I'd expect you to have some experience with all phases in the fight. Now that people are more geared there might be more leeway (since one mistake or lower dps won't immediately lead to a wipe), but watching a video isn't the same as getting actual practice. Respect the amount of time others may have put into learning parties before going for a clear, and don't jump into a clear party without getting some experience.
    I'd be fine with this if you have some idea about the mechanics, but I think it would depend on the attitude of the group. We had a Ramuh farm once where a tank never tried it before (and didn't have provoke...) but we gave him a shot since we were doing it unsynched, and even though we made some mistakes, everyone was friendly and relaxed throughout. I still see unsynched clear parties as well in Bryn's PF, so that might be a better place to start.

    If you're not feeling confident, I think it's best to be upfront and honest about it with the group. If they're not tolerant about it, then no one wastes any time and you don't have to be terrified of how they'll react if you mess up. If they are, then it's easier to give you some advice instead of starting the fingerpointing and witch-hunting drama.

    The noob phase is exactly what learning parties are for. Watch a vid/read a guide, then join a learning party where the pressure is pretty low and no one should judge you harshly for messing up. If it takes a while before you feel comfortable enough joining a clear party, then so be it! Most of us can't be flawless in new fights without getting practice (and if you're me, making a bajillion dumb mistakes) first :p
     

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
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  8. joshua david

    joshua david Crystal Brave

    Server:
    Cactuar
    127
    171
    27
    this is one of my main gripes with this game. i miss the days of 2.0-2.1 when all primals where always in the df.

    on my server there is a very small window of understanding and patience.
    on cactuar you generally will have good luck within the first week, but starting around day 8 every PF
    turns into "exp onry" "will kick" blah blah blah. i refuse to join any group with titles like that
    regardless of my own skill or knowledge because it only shows me the arrogance and impatience of the
    leader, and subsequently, the people who would join that type of group.

    i also pride myself on never joining a group i do not meet the qualifications. if the title says, "have exp to phase X"
    and i dont.. welp, ill never try yo sneak in. unfortunately, this type of behavior or labeling of groups becomes the
    meta even if the party leader has 0 exp.

    what i end up doing if i miss the 1st week train is just putting that content on the shelf until it opens in df.
    i would rather wipe 1000x, learning the entire way, with strangers in df that wont go around my server talking s**t
    and getting the Illuminati to b-list you from future runs than to deal with snobbery or douchbagery on my servers pug scene.

    the other thing i did (ravana ex) was just to buy a run for the clear to be done with it so i would be ready for 3.1's primal.
    im not ashamed of buying a run. ive bought a few. i spend alot of my time crafting/gathering/desyth/ect and have very little to spend my money
    on. the only exception was that ravana ex was the 1st run i was ever carried through due to me giving up early on trying to learn through the pf.

    my suggestion is if you have a lot of patience, make a learning party with clear expectations and wait.. and wait.. and wait...
    or put that crap on pause for the next month(??) until 3.1 drops and smash your head into df until you get it.
    or if you have a few million lying around, just buy it and be done and be proactive on getting the next primal kill done asap upon its launch.

    beyond anything else, i think my advice would be that you not feed into or continue this sort of exclusionary or asshole attitude within the pf.
    dont try to sneak into a group you do not meet their expectations. and if you end up buying a run, DO NOT join a "kill exp onry" group afterwards until you truly know the fight. when you do that you give all others that buy a run for reasons X/Y/Z, a bad name.
     

  9. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

    Server:
    Zalera
    1,219
    1,747
    64
    I actually went thru two of these PF stages just this past 2 weeks. They key is, don't be shy at creating your own party on PF. I am super noob at this sort of stuff. I didn't know where the buttons were, and on my first time, I wrongly created a 4-man party on PF :fanboy: But you cant be afraid to make mistakes, or you will never get anything done!

    I found it particularly helpful to add in comments in the description of the PF party, like "Bis Ex Learning Party - We are noobs, no pressure". Later, i created one called "Bis Ex Learning/Clear Party - have some experience". Then later "Bis Ex Clear Party - NOT Learning, need strong DPS". And the appropriate people seemed to have joined each of my party. There was no issue of raging in all my runs. And my clear came today after 3 Clear Parties.
     

  10. nekohime

    nekohime Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    35
    47
    17
    While I still haven't done most endgame content yet from ARR, let alone HW, from what I've done in PF I haven't found Brynn to be noob unfriendly at all. If you join or create a party that specifically states it's for learning then most people will also be learning/clearing and will be happy just to have a party that doesn't vote abandon after 15 minutes... which is usually what happens if you try to use DF.
     

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