Monk Monk DPS Guide V2

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by Tigris, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. Tigris

    Tigris Adventurer

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    Tigris submitted a new Guide:

    Monk DPS Guide (version 1.0) - This guide will explain the mechanics and gameplay of the monk (and the pugilist).

    Read more about this guide...
     

    Ragnarok_DX769 and Maaja like this.
  2. Artryafe

    Artryafe New Member

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    Hey man great guide so far! One question though. How come you don't start the beginning rotation with 1. Behind BS SN DS instead of 1. Behind BS Flank TS DS? Wouldn't it be better to get that 10% damage up asap and also to boost your DS?

    You can also add food that will benefit the Pugilist class. I found Dodo Omelette so far to be good. It provides Critical hit rating +8% Vitality +4% Determination +1 (not sure if it is the best food.) There is also a potion called Potion of Strength that gives Strength +16% for 15s.

    Can you please provide a sample scenario on how to use the offensive cooldowns efficiently please? I want to make sure I'm executing my rotation the right way. Sorry for the lengthy post, just wanted to give my input to an already awesome guide. Thank you in advance.
     

  3. Tigris

    Tigris Adventurer

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    Actually under offensive cooldowns there is the startrotation. Since you want to start your rotation (at high level) with Perfect Balance followed by :

    flank
    SP SP DS
    DK SN SP

    before starting at step 3 of the rotation.

    But if you don't have this ready it would make sence to make as the 2nd attack a SN,
    BUT later at some point you want to reach my rotation, since it is easier to have TS allways after BS and not after DK, since then you would need to switch EVEN more between flank and behind, which would make the whole rotation even more complicated and the chance to make errors increases.

    I will add later food and potions and so so, when there is a good (complete) database about all the stuff which is available.

    But I think from the stats section (in part 2) there you can find more or less hints what kind of food you want to have. (And most likely some food with accuracy strength or attack speed would be better then krit if this does exist).

    The pot seams to be quite strong! How long is it's cooldown?


    For the cooldowns I will when I have time a more precisse scenario.
    But in general what is written unde rthe cooldowns should be done:

    Use ALL cooldowns the first time together in your rotation in step 3 before SP (also the strength pot if you have them)
    And then use the cooldowns whenever they are ready.
    Except for Infernal Release you should use it allways AFTER a TS for maximum efficiency.

    And thanks for your post (it isn't really lengthty at all9, can I also ask a question (since I couldn't play the last days to check it myself)...

    Are the damage cooldowns off the global cooldown?`(I think so but I am not 100% sure...)
    And do you know what happens if you renew a dot slightly before it falls of?
    (i mean the dot will lask for 0.5 more seconds and you renew it will then the dottick in 0.5 seconds be lost?)
     

  4. Artryafe

    Artryafe New Member

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    Oh yeah I forgot to add the cooldown of the pot, it's 5 minutes if im not mistaken (ill check again once the phase 4 comes). Also the only skill that was off the global cooldown is Internal Release. The strength pot is on global cooldown. Looks like we will have to incorporate some macros in the rotation. I found a macro guide that can be useful to us. http://erals.guildwork.com/forum/th...th-extra-fish?page=1#51dc78dec16e4d20f30c56fb

    I only got up to level 31, with some extensive testing on rotations and practicing what you have. I'm really loving pugilist so far. The challenge of the rotations im sure will be greatly rewarding dps wise if you know what you are doing. I started off with archer, but moved on to pugilist.
     

  5. Tigris

    Tigris Adventurer

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    I meant only infernal release (and blood for blood and perfect balance) to be off cooldown.
    Ok I expected the pot to be off cooldown as well....

    I am not sure if pots are really good for damage, when they are on the global cooldown...

    When the 16% strength pot would increase damage by 16% one would need 7 additional attacks in the 15 seconds such that it weal deal more damage, then the 1 attack which is lost from the global cooldown.

    With a 2 Second Global Cooldown (10% haste) you could achieve this:

    0 Pot -> 2 Attack (1) -> 4 Attack(2) -> 6 Attack(3)-> 8 Attack (4) -> 10 Attack(5) -> 12 Attack(6) -> 14 Attack(7)

    The problem now is that a 16% increase in strength is not equal to a 16% increase in damage. Since Weapon damage also gives one part of the damage you deal...

    And if your weapon damage is responsible for more then 10% of your total damage, using the pot will result in a damage loss...

    So the only way I can see use for the pot at the moment is the following:

    - You have a global cooldown of 2 seconds or less. (you have 10% attackspeed or more on your equipment)
    - You have equipment with A LOT of strength.
    - (you have not that much weapon damage)

    such that: (weapon damage)*4.3< 0.25 {or 0.5 if you have blood for blood}*STR

    - You have Infernal Release ready
    {- You have Blood for Blood (aquired and ready)}
    - You have all selfbuffs (and on the target is the debuff).
    - You need to refresh the dots on your target during the next 15 seconds.

    Then you will do the following

    USE pot ->1.99 Seconds later use infernal release {and blood for Blood} ->0.01 Seconds later go on with your normal rotation.
    And during the next 15 seconds you use demolish AND touch of death.


    If you can do this, you will have a SMALL damage increase by using a pot IF the inequality above is fullfilled.

    The better the inequality is fulfilled (the bigger the RIGHT PART with the strength ) is the bigger is the damage increase which you will get.

    (this inequality is not 100% precise but should be good enough.)
     

  6. Brahma

    Brahma Crystal Brave

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    thanks a lot for this :) I'll have to take a closer look at this as I level up in P4 and beyond.
     

  7. Asuna

    Asuna Crystal Brave

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    Great guide. It's always a pleasure working out rotations through self-theorycrafting and trial n' error in-game and then reading up on what others have conjured.
     

  8. Tigris

    Tigris Adventurer

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    Thank you for the nice review.
    I have made a small update to the guide and added the Potion of strength and a section with the whole rotation.
    I also divided the guide in two parts Basics and Advanced stuff.

    If you have some more comments about what to add or what to change, please let me know.
     

  9. Artryafe

    Artryafe New Member

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    Quick question. What have you been putting your attribute points into STR?
     

  10. Tigris

    Tigris Adventurer

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    I would put them only in STR since this is the only stat which increases our damage.
    Also if later more points in VIT are needed, we can just put more vit on the equipment.
    But if the "basic" vitallity which comes with equipment is enough, we have no way (except redistribution of points) to regain the points spent on VIT
     

  11. Eein

    Eein New Member

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    Determination also increases damage at about half the rate of STR, and also increases healing taken which will be more useful for int as long as there isn't any abilities that will one shot you (after resistances) with the base health pool. :)
     

  12. Tigris

    Tigris Adventurer

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    But I would still never put my stats into anything other then STR. You will get Determination on your stat anyway. And if you need more you can just use more such materias.
    VIT also increases the amount of health restored with our second wind. And healers don't have allways time to just heal you or are just slow, so even if abilities don't one hit you more health can be quite important.

    Also one problem with determination for healing is, that it can be uneffective, if you would be healed full anyway, even if you had no determination.

    (I mean when you have 1000 Life and 20% increased healing due to determination, then if you go down to 500 Health and the healer heals you for 600 (500 before determination) the determination was completely useless).

    I still think determination is quite a good stat and overall a good mixture of stats will be best most of the time.

    But finding the right mixture is more something for the gear not for your basestats, since it may depend on the fight/the group constilation.

    And if there are stupid you take no damage and just do a lot of damage fights you will need all your stats in damage.
    And in most MMOs at least some fights are like this.
     

  13. Eein

    Eein New Member

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    I agree.

    I need to do math on the value. Min-maxers might take det over vit for scary endbosses if there are any.
    Its mostly a thought at this point.
     

  14. Artryafe

    Artryafe New Member

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    Hey Tigris, I think Potion of Strength isn't on global cool down. I can't really tell I think I lag a bit. Could you double check? You can get it from the apothecary in the market.
     

  15. Gaderian

    Gaderian New Member

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    Great guide! I was wondering though, what do you exactly mean by 35, 20 and 10 % skill speed? And do you know how much skill speed (stat on gear) you need to achieve 10 %? Thanks!
     

  16. Artryafe

    Artryafe New Member

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    Tigris has been MIA for quite some time. I think to achieve 10% skill speed you need 490 skill speed stat which equals 2.00 second global cooldown. Tigris come back!
     

  17. Gaderian

    Gaderian New Member

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    When i increase my skill speed with 10, my global cooldown decreases with 0.01 seconds. I currently have 469 skill speed with 2.38 sec cooldown... I don't see how 490 skill speed will decrease it with that much, or is it an exponential drop? Or am i totally wrong here? :p
     

  18. Artryafe

    Artryafe New Member

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    I forgot to add it drops to 2.00 Global cooldown when you have Greased Lightning stacked x3 :). Regular it's at 2.36.
     

  19. Maloocat

    Maloocat New Member

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    Great guide. Probably one of the best MNK guids out there.

    I would love it if u could add a section on what Macros you recomend as well as how much attack speed rating is needed for 10%-35% skillspeed.

    Thanks!
     

  20. Empi3

    Empi3 New Member

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    Needs Updating. Demolish has been changed.
    http://xivdb.com/?skill/66/Demolish

    actually I reviewed all of the skills and it looks like many got tweaked. mostly in cooldowns and attack potency.
     

    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014

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