Tank Help for a new Tank?

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by Bowgun, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. Bowgun

    Bowgun Adventurer

    Server:
    Behemoth
    7
    14
    11
    Hiya everyone, I'm new to these forums so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. I just joined the site today! So I was considering playing a Paladin because they look fun. I know a few basic things about them, use Flash liberally, someone also told me it's good to start the first half of your 'combo' on mob A, then finish it on mob B, etc. I thought I would organize the things I'm concerned about with not just Paladin tanking, but Tanking as a whole.

    • Navigating dungeons: I'm worried about navigating through dungeons and getting lost. I don't want to waste people's time, but I also would rather not be told I should uninstall and that I suck, etc. I'd rather people be helpful, though I know I have zero control over how people act. Haukke Manor is a dungeon that I feel would give me trouble.
    • Thick skin: I know tanking will require thick skin. I can take constructive criticism, and the occasional troll who is gonna tell me I'm bad even though I may be doing fine, but as someone with severe social anxiety, it can really hurt getting multiple people who are just plain rude rather than helpful. I'm coming from WoW, which I just quit for FFXIV a couple of days ago, and people there can be extremely brutal to new tanks, or just new players in general.
    • Combos: So as I stated above, someone told me it's a good idea to start a combo on mob A and finish it on mob B. I'd like to know: what is/are the combo(s)? Does it depend on what ability you used first? Are there multiple combos? If there are, is there a certain one I should be using more than the others?
    I've heard that overall, Paladin tanking is pretty simple. I'm mainly concerned about the social aspect and people possibly ganging up on me to bully me out of the group, this hasn't happened before, and the people I've met so far are very friendly, my brain just likes to make up negative scenarios before they even happen and it's discouraging.

    Any help is very much appreciated, I couldn't find anyone online with a lot of the same concerns as I have, so I decided to would be best to ask people myself. Thank you guys!
     

    Salem likes this.
  2. Jinzuku

    Jinzuku Vice Administrator

    Server:
    Phoenix
    1,372
    976
    54

  3. Bowgun

    Bowgun Adventurer

    Server:
    Behemoth
    7
    14
    11
    Thank you! This will definitely come in handy, gonna give it a read!
     

    racooperii, nekohime and Jinzuku like this.
  4. Beefylee

    Beefylee Adventurer

    29
    39
    18
    I think you'll find the community in this game is largely helpful. so in regards to your first point ask you only need to run the Dungeon 2-3 times and you'll know it like the back of your hand.

    again the community is completely different most people are gonna say hi and maybe throw out a few pointers i've never been verbally abused and ive been playing nearly a year. i've had people who are unhappy but they normally leave or get kicked and we abandon the duty.

    you last point combos are basically proc's if you use a Skill after a certain skill it has added affects. In regards to paladins its a case of use fast blade into savage blade into rage of Halone. doing the 3 moves in this order will gain added eminity (aggro/hate) and if you split the last two on different mobs you gain extra hate on both.

    while your here you might want to check out some of the amazing guides written by members.
    This Will answer most of your questions : http://ffxivrealm.com/guides/ffxiv-tanking-guide-for-beginners.56/

    WElcome and Have Fun
     

    Caimie Tsukino, Bowgun and nekohime like this.
  5. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

    619
    368
    32
    Navigating a new dungeon can be an issue if you are a tank.

    What I recommend is run the dungeon as a different job and see what the tank does. Pay attention to what they are doing. See what they are doing effectively and not effectively and emulate or better what they did.

    Like anything that people are proficient in takes time, practice and patience.
     

    Caimie Tsukino likes this.
  6. nekohime

    nekohime Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    35
    47
    17
    In regards to your first point, you can always look up maps for each dungeon to figure out the routes and coffer locations. After that I recommend running once with friends who will explain any important mechanics, then run it again in Duty Finder and make sure to quickly recap any strategies with your group before bosses.

    As for your second point, based on my own experience as a tank, the experiences of some of my friends, and what I have read online, I've come to the conclusion that if you need thick skin to tank then you're probably doing something terribly wrong. The good news is that just coming here and asking about it shows that you care enough about being a good tank to actually learn how to do so! This site has a lot of excellent guides and reading ones that have been linked here will put you well on your way toward being the tank everyone hopes they get in Duty Finder.

    Also if you would like more in-depth discussion on Paladin or even just general tanking theory, head on over to the Disciples of War section. Good luck and happy tanking!
     

    Bowgun likes this.
  7. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    I started as a tank, did my first everything as a tank, etc. I have totally gotten turned around and led the party guns a-blazing clean in the opposite direction of the path forward. XD I actually went back up the lift in Copperbell once... twice... okay way too many times.

    Best thing to do, really, is just to tell everyone it's your first time and watch the map. It's easiest to navigate the first time, because anywhere you haven't been yet just won't be filled out on your map. Pay attention to the map, landmarks, and when your party members try to direct you, and you'll be fine on that front. (More or less.)

    There are always douchebags, but particularly at low levels when you let people know you're new, there are far more completely neutral or even helpful people than jerks. I get anxious too, and would have full-blown breakdowns if I had to deal with jerks when I was new, because I didn't know enough to realize not everything was always my fault. By and large, the community here is much, much better than WoW's. But if you're nervous, join a newbie-friendly free company and ask some folks there to take you to dungeons your first time and show you the ropes :)

    As for the combo-spread method, it depends partially on your level. You'll always want to establish aggro with a few Flashes on the whole lot first. Then, rotating your combo around various enemies is less a "never hit the same enemy twice" kind of rule (actually, you'll probably use whole combos on your primary target quite often) and more of a "cycle through enemies, watch the party aggro bars, and apply face-smacks as necessary" kind of deal. If you've got melee DPS working on your target #1, you will want to follow up your initial Flashes with a full aggro combo on that mob before you even think of going and rotating your combo around all the mobs. That rotating is a tool in your arsenal, not a hard and fast rule. What matters most is watching aggro meters and staying on top of them all, and while rotating is a great tool for that, it's not helpful if you start rotating before you've got a firm aggro lead on the main target and your DPS rip hate right off you.

    Your main aggro-gen combo (and the one you'd want to rotate around sometimes) is Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone. If you don't have Rage of Halone yet, do not do not do not rotate your combo around enemies; you only have one move with extra enmity and your main target will need it. (I learned Rage of Halone in a Toto-Rak run. Holding aggro off the endgame Bard was hell on earth for the first half of the dungeon, and then eminently doable as soon as I learned RoH. I was crying tears of joy.) Fast Blade > Riot Blade should only be used for regaining MP, at least up through level 50. (I don't know anything about Paladin post-50.)

    By the way, are you PC or console?
     

  8. Bowgun

    Bowgun Adventurer

    Server:
    Behemoth
    7
    14
    11
    Thank you for your helpful post! I appreciate it! And I'm on PC.
     

  9. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    In that case, you won't be needing the controller targeting tips, lol. The basic tanking guide that was linked for you earlier has a section I wrote too, and while it's for Marauders, it does explain party aggro bars with pictures, so if you're not sure how to tell what your aggro looks like when you shuffle targets, that will help :3
     

    racooperii likes this.
  10. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

    619
    368
    32
    Be nice if they actually showed % instead of just colors because those colors are misleading sometimes. I'm red on a target and the mob goes after the healer for a split second. :shifty:"
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2015 ---
    I don't play PLD but I have played DRK and WAR to 50+ so the mechanics are essentially the same. The abilities do the exact same thing they are just named different things.

    Shield lob an enemy in the group. Flash twice and start your aggro gaining combo. Finish it on the next mob and by that time the first mob should be nearly dead and you should still have aggro on the first mob. Rinse and repeat. I've never lost aggro doing this.
     

    racooperii likes this.
  11. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    So um, I think I'm about to blow your mind, man. I'm not talking about the enemy list, which shows icons, and if you're a tank, doesn't tell you anything is wrong until after you've lost aggro on something. I'm talking about the party list. At the bottom of everyone's class/job icon is a white bar (it will only show up once they've gained *some* enmity on the enemy—so, if the enemy is in their enemies list, they have this bar in your party list while targeting said enemy). Yours, when you have hate, will say A next to it and show a full white bar. All the others will be numbered 2+ to show the order of who has the next most aggro and down the list, and the white bar shows how close they are to taking aggro. The fuller their white bar, the closer they are. You can also see how much aggro your last attack generated just by watching those bars go down (it's how I saw just how damn much it helped when I learned Rage of Halone mid-dungeon).


    Also Flash is a lot weaker than Overpower and whatever the DRK move was called. A LOT weaker. In my experience at least, I always needed a full combo on target #1 before I could try to rotate as a Paladin. Then again, I just leveled it to 50 and quit because Heavensward came out right then, so I was pretty much always fighting for aggro with people higher level and better geared than me, but as that's a normal state, yeah. #1 target probably needs to be hit by a Rage of Halone.
     

  12. nekohime

    nekohime Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    35
    47
    17

    Whenever you target an enemy a white bar will appear under the class icon of everyone in your party list. The fuller the bar, the more hate they have. Whoever has the most hate will have a full bar, if someone else is nearly full then they are close to pulling hate. That's what people are referring to when they say "cycle mobs and check to see where hate is needed"

    Also to follow up on what Praysolace said, if you are target cycling it may help to learn how to mark targets without slowing down your pulls. People can get confused on kill orders if you keep switching targets so marks help. Also I wouldn't say to not cycle targets without Halone, but you should probably put 2 Savage Blade comboes on #1 before switching. 2 Savage Blades plus your opening 2-3 flashes should be plenty of hate for the first mob in those really low level dungeons, after that you just need to make sure you don't lose hate to the healer.

    Edit: Praysolace JUST beat me with his response lol
     

  13. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    I was saying not to rotate without Halone purely because as I leveled Gladiator I was always just barely keeping my head above water with aggro on the main target by doing nothing but aggro combo on the main target and Flashing in between. Rage of Halone generates the most aggro by a very wide margin, so unless you're running with folks at like levels and like gear scores—which you probably aren't, because dear god if it isn't always an endgame character decked out in full endgame gear DPSing in there with you—you'll probably be treading water on the DPS's main target as it is.
     

    racooperii and nekohime like this.
  14. Bowgun

    Bowgun Adventurer

    Server:
    Behemoth
    7
    14
    11
    Thought I'd give a little update: I've done a few Guildheists to practice tanking a little bit. The first 2 went pretty well, everyone was understanding about me being new and was willing to be patient with me. I lost aggro at some points, but was able to get it back. I just did the 3rd one and Didn't lose any aggro at all, except when we pulled the boss, a healer who was doing a little DPS at the same time pulled aggro off of me, but after a couple of Flashes, I got it back. The run went smooth and out of all of these no one has died. Also I've run in to nothing but friendly and helpful players! :D
     

    racooperii, praysolace and nekohime like this.
  15. nekohime

    nekohime Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    35
    47
    17
    I pretty much always used up-to-date HQ crafted gear while leveling (gladiator was my first class too) and with level sync I never had an issue with endame-geared players untill 50 when the sync jumps to i110. Even then I didn't run much untill I had all the i115 gear. Even now just at 54 the only time I have issues with unsynced lvl 60 players is if there's another tank with their tanking stance up.
     

  16. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    Gear still makes a difference even synced, and it makes the most noticeable difference pre-Halone. Once you have Rage of Halone it isn't nearly so difficult to work around, but before that, yikes. Shield Oath helps enormously too lol.
     

    nekohime and racooperii like this.
  17. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    I've always ran everything at minimum level for all my jobs, and just tried to have my gear not too far below my level. Although to be fair, when levelling GLA there weren't any level 50s in low level dungeons at the time.

    Being aware of aggro is a big learning curve for a PLD because unless you overpower the content gear/level-wise, it's a necessity. It's more than just using the enemy list and party list aggro meters, it's seeing which mobs are taking damage, and getting to know your party and who builds the most aggro on single target or multi-target. There are lots of little tells, and a GLA can build enough aggro but consistently putting aggro in the right place is the challenge. Occasionally losing a target isn't a big deal though, so long as you know how to get it back without sacrificing the enmity of other targets.
     

    nekohime and racooperii like this.
  18. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    2,301
    1,431
    48
    Gld/Pld pre-halone is difficult, Pld pre Shield Oath is also difficult. Once you have those tools though it gets easy since the 1-51 grind is a 3 step rotation and you can survive a nuclear attack with the CD Buffs on rotation
     

    praysolace likes this.
  19. nekohime

    nekohime Adventurer

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    35
    47
    17
    I think the hardest leveling dungeon for PLD hate-wise was Cutter's Cry at 38. It's doable but I was consistantly just barely staying ahead of the dps. Running it again at 40 with Shield Oath made a huge difference.
     

    GeekMatt and racooperii like this.
  20. radioactive_lego

    radioactive_lego New Member

    Server:
    Malboro
    10
    7
    8
    Social anxiety rule #1: Do not post on Reddit. Trollsville.
    Social anxiety rule #2: Say "hi" at the beginning if you're in a PUG, then click over to the "battle" chat tab.
    Social anxiety rule #3: Find a good, active, positive FC and roll with them whenever possible.
     

    Jinzuku and GeekMatt like this.
: paladin, tanking, tank

Share This Page