Warrior Have I been tanking wrong the whole time?

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by wildbillhdmax01, Sep 3, 2014.

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  1. Elivercury

    Elivercury Crystal Brave

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    It's all well and good that you're reading it for the first time, but I'm sure you can see how trying to continue a year old conversation (or two year old if we're counting your posts in other threads) isn't especially helpful. People have long since disengaged and stopped thinking about the conversation (if they even still remember it) and more importantly, in terms of a MMO a lot can change in a year. To my knowledge, since November last year there have been two significant buffs to enmity generation on tanks (Flash primarily) and more importantly, there is obviously the expansion pack so now we're usually discussing things at level 60, rather than level 50 which is a significant difference.

    It would have been more helpful to start a new thread on the topic for a fresh and current discussion and reference back to this topic if you felt there was something especially relevant.

    Regarding your actual points on marking/tanking - marking can be very low hassle if you make it into a macro. For example, have shield lob be your marking macro so that the first enemy you smack with shield lob will get a big "1" over its head. You've now marked without doing any additional effort - just shield lob the next enemy if needed once it is dead/about to die.

    You can also macro marking into other moves, such as fast blade/savage blade and always use that move on the mob, or you could just have macros dedicated to marking if you've space on your hotbars...whatever works for you really.

    Personally I usually don't bother with marking when I'm tanking unless there is something that really needs to die, or I'm doing something with a specific kill order, like Thornmarch HM/EX, as to be honest, unless they are full i210 I can probably keep hate from them relatively easily, regardless of how they are spamming their abilities. I'm also usually the one pulling way too much and nearly wiping us, rather than taking a slow and conservative approach, so I never get any hassle on that front either.

    To be honest, if you are having serious issues with losing hate from DPS attacking mobs randomly (mobs that you're fighting, not additional mobs ofc) or you're regularly finding DPS feel you're going too slow then you may wish to evaluate what you are doing as a tank. While I'm aware that DF can be somewhat toxic and contains plenty of bad players, it also contains a large number of decent/average and friendly players. If you're consistently finding you're having issues in DF and people take issue with how you're tanking it may be that you are the issue, not them.
     

  2. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    If dps or heals like to play I want to go first I let them tank and I watch them run around and die. They will get the message very quickly.
     

  3. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    Just gonna point out that this doesn't always work. I have been known to Shield Lob the closest thing and then switch to a ranged enemy while I'm dragging the first set, stuff like that. If a tank marks, you always follow the marks over his current target, because tanks have plenty of reasons to swap targets and DPS should not follow them in most cases XD

    I once had an idiot healer try to tell me on my alt that I should just target the tank and macro <tt> to all my attacks. I was like "What, so I can go attacking willy-nilly all over the set as the tank rotates his combo around multiple mobs??" That particular tank left us all confused about who we were supposed to attack first though, so he agreed to mark once had that conversation. XD
     

  4. Nez McNezza

    Nez McNezza New Member

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    "Just gonna point out that this doesn't always work. I have been known to Shield Lob the closest thing and then switch to a ranged enemy while I'm dragging the first set"

    Dont switch then >< the whole point of /assist is if you stay on the same target. The tactic never fails and the only reason it didn't work for you is because you did it wrong...and started attacking multiple targets

    "I once had an idiot healer try to tell me on my alt that I should just target the tank and macro <tt> to all my attacks. I was like "What, so I can go attacking willy-nilly all over the set as the tank rotates his combo around multiple mobs??""

    that healer was good. it was you who was the idiot

    "tanks have plenty of reasons to swap targets and DPS should not follow them in most cases XD"

    You are a bad player
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 2, 2015 ---
    then you get told you're a s**t tank, and recieve no commendations
     

  5. Elivercury

    Elivercury Crystal Brave

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    Okay, you clearly don't know how to tank. As a tank, if you are fighting multiple enemies you should be distributing your combo between the different enemies to keep hate up – in addition to flashing. If you’re pulling 3 enemies and refusing to even look at two of them, then that is why you are having issues with DPS pulling hate off you – share the love. Additionally, tanks have abilities such as cover and clemency which will cause them to target members of the party – this will cause <tt> to break down also, although I’ll grant these are pretty situational abilities. <tt> is a nice thing to do on a healer when throwing out occasional DPS or debuffs, but is a totally impractical way to play a DPS class.

    Before you retort with “you don’t need to hit more than one enemy because that is what flash is for”; flash is indeed for gaining hate on multiple enemies simultaneously, however given it does zero damage you want to use it as little as possible, as while tank damage isn’t on par with DPS classes, it will help enemies go down quicker. There is no point having 50x the hate of the DPS on 1 enemy while nearly losing it on 2 others and having to use flash to keep up – you would be far better off distributing your attacks between the enemies, causing you to have, say, 10x aggro on each enemy and having dealt damage constantly.

    Incidentally, how do YOU pull a group with a ranged enemy straggler? If you don’t shield lob the melee group and drag them to the ranged group that gives you only two other options I can think of:

    1) Facepull the melee group and run over to/shieldlob the ranged enemy. This is a bad idea because you have approximately zero enmity with the melee group and will lose them in a second. Facepulling is just bad always.

    2) Pull the melee group and then ignore the ranged enemy. This is probably an even worse idea as you’ll have zero hate on the ranged enemy and he’ll just slap your healer all day long. Additionally, you’ve also stopped your group from AoEing efficiently as they aren’t grouped up.

    Honestly, I don’t even know why a /assist command even exists. If you’re paying the remotest bit of attention you know who the tank is attacking, and if you’ve two braincells you will even be able to decide if that is the target you would be best off attacking or not (i.e. if the tank is building up aggro on them, or just grabbing them as part of a larger pull).
     

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  6. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    Learn to tank. Also to DPS. A good tank doesn't require his party to adapt to his ineptness, and macroing every one of your abilities is stupid and slows you down because by adding in additional commands to a single skill you aren't able to activate skills as quickly. Marking is fine for new tanks learning how to manage aggro, or tanks helping nervous DPS, or just to emphasize an important mob, but an experienced tank doesn't need his party to rewrite their play styles just so s/he can tank properly. Use of these macros will slow your DPS further when it messes up your positionals, and prevents you from managing DoTs/debuffs appropriately since you're not looking at your target.

    I'm sorry, but if you're going to offensively call someone out on being "wrong" use your head at least to some minor degree. Your posts have shown a clear inability to manage your job(s) affectively and it's clear to any player that knows the game.
     

  7. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    I don't know how you think you get off calling someone else a "condescending retard" when you are the one who out of absolutely nowhere started personally insulting me and now Elivercury too. Neither of us ever said you were stupid; we simply responded to what you said. The personal insults were all you. Your behaviour is extremely inappropriate and offensive.
     

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  8. Nez McNezza

    Nez McNezza New Member

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    "Honestly, I don’t even know why a /assist command even exists. If you’re paying the remotest bit of attention you know who the tank is attacking, and if you’ve two braincells you will even be able to decide if that is the target you would be best off attacking or not (i.e. if the tank is building up aggro on them, or just grabbing them as part of a larger pull)."

    I really don't know what to say anymore. You are so dim. The assist command is there for tards who don't have two braincells and/or understand enmity and take actions that screw up enmity before a tank has cemented it. In the method I am telling you about...no dps will ever pull hate from a tank and the reason I know that you dont know this is because you've never done it. The enmity bars of the otehr 3 is so pathetically low on that focused target they will never pull hate...unless of course one of them decides to bring provoke as a cross class skill just to be a troll.
     

  9. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    Since it's a necro'd thread to begin with and since you're attempting to spread incompetence, insults, and intolerance for players, I'm going to go ahead and lock it.
     

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