Warrior Have I been tanking wrong the whole time?

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by wildbillhdmax01, Sep 3, 2014.

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  1. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    speedruns with new groups is like dancing on a razor... When the tank pulls a massive xxl trash pile then stops suddenly without any logic bc,.. That's when s**t hits the fan. I might have over run him, so he's already taken dmg, and is now getting eaten alive. Stone skin gone, and HP at 50% while the party runs past him... So DPS isn't there either.

    That's not a time for swift-holy... Thats a time for swift stone skin, divine regen, cure2 cure2 >> presence stoneskin THEN holy.

    Swift holy only works when you know where the tank is gonna stop... Because... The times when i let the tank die and can't keep up are often after he stops (I swift cast) and then he continues running while my wasted holy (still 2 sec animation) is glittering in the horrid wake of the pull..
     

    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
  2. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    There are obvious spots where the tank is going to stop. If they can't go forward anymore, swift holy is a good idea. I always pop sprint so I'm right next to the tank and prepped for them to stop. There's no downtime if I pop sprint, Swiftcast Holy as soon as he stops, Eye for an Eye > Divine Seal > Presence of Mind > Cure II spam.
     

  3. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    I agree!! I was saying in the events the tanks don't follow logic. I find the holy gets there too late when they stop on a dime.

    Personally, if Im gonna add to DPS I like to plan where I'm gonna stop (based on my knowledge of the tank) cleric stance and presence (while running), then swift holy then holy spam until the tank is 20%, then benediction, shroud, holy 1-2x then uncleric, stone, regen, cure1.

    If I feel I have the chance and I need to stun... I agree, swift holy is awesome.
     

    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
  4. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    Tanks can follow logic? =P I'm just always prepared to watch them stop while trying as hard as I can not to facepalm at how many mobs they pulled. I have my swiftcast bound to F on all classes so I don't have to worry about clicking it and can get it off on time. But I also have a lot of High Allagan gear for my WHM so healing isn't as much of a hassle (WHM staff and pants help a loooot with spell speed).
     

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  5. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    I will get those pants... Someday...
    :sorry:

    Edit!!!!! I downed t5 last night!!! So maybe soon?!?!
     

    Last edited: Nov 14, 2014
  6. Mindflenzing

    Mindflenzing Crystal Brave

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    Best DPS on the server and that ain't no lie. And despite being that good, he's the nicest guy.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2014, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2014 ---
    It really makes you appreciate those tanks who actually glance at their own health/the healer's mp/their own tp/the party makeup/the chat log and make rational decisions based on the desire to spend a mint repairing their gear. This is why Praysolace is one of my all-time favorite tanks.
     

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  7. Yosuke

    Yosuke Crystal Brave

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    LOL I'm not the best dps, I'm working my ass to be decent :D but thanks <3 ^^
     

  8. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    Our measures of "best" include things such as "helpfulness" and "not-being-a-dick-ishness," so there's that XP

    [​IMG]
     

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  9. Nez McNezza

    Nez McNezza New Member

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    Whats the point in marking enemies if you have one, or worse still both dps making it their mission to continuosly attack whatever the paladin isnt targetting and/or any number that isn't "1"? So in some cases the tank gives up marking because it's not helping. The major thing that contributes to a failed run is dps who can't play as a team and want to play solo in the middle of a party setting
     

  10. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

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    The point in marking is specify the order in which things need to die. It is a nice tool for helping aggo and the majority of DPS follow a posted kill order.

    In a raid its more vital because sometimes targets have to die in a specific order to avoid wipes.

    I have read your whole three posts so far and I can tell this will probably turn into a circular argument but the simple fact is a majority of the DPS in this game will follow a kill order if you make one. You don't always need to make one but I advise any new tank to set a kill order, itll help them manage their agro generation a bit better and make things a little easier on them. If you don't mark one and you struggle to hold threat you have no one to blame but your self because at that point your giving the DPS a free pass in which case most people will just tell you to go QQ more.
     

  11. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    There are two ways to manage aggro. The first is to let the DPS do their job, and the tank adapts. This is ideal because everyone's able to focus on their responsibilities.

    It's not always applicable though, because sometimes the tanks gear or experience prevents him from generating enough aggro where it's needed, so there's the alternative; the Tank marks targets and the DPS adapts. Either you'll get a competent DPS that attacks the marked targets, you'll get a dull DPS which could be someone like me who gets distracted or is just bored of the content and accidentally hits the wrong thing now and again (I'll usually call myself out on it and/or apologize), OR there's the put-a-helmet-on-him stupid DPS that thinks he's teaching his tank how to manage aggro by messing around (who then goes on to wonder why DPS queues suck.)

    In any case, you might get good DPS or bad ones, but if you don't mark, you're telling them to hit whatever they want to maximize their role as damage dealers.
     

    Last edited: Oct 24, 2015
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  12. Tyo Ganajai

    Tyo Ganajai Crystal Brave

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    This. I will always follow markings as a dps and most dps outside of DF usually will as well unless it is in easy content and they aren't putting in any real effort. But if you don't mark I am often left to guess the focus or waste extra time clicking the tank to find out exactly who the priority is as opposed to starting my fire rotations asap.
     

  13. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    When i play DPS, if the tank marks, i will "try to follow". Sometimes if i miss it, then sorry, it wasn't my intention.

    If the tank doesn't mark, i interpret it as "i can hit whatever i want, and tank will still keep aggro". If the tank loses aggro, that's obviously not my fault. I would only think the tank isn't competent.
     

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  14. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

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    Even the best tanks lose aggro from time to time. It might not be incompetence, maybe they're just tired, or he got to lob his ranged and everyone took that as the signal to attack (Pssst It's not lol).

    Or he's just a little more undergeared and has some trouble with it.

    Just because a tank loses aggro doesn't make him incompetent, it's probably just an off day. Unless he's losing it every pull...
     

  15. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    Or sometimes they just not paying attention to their surrounding and the range character in the back is attacking a mob that that the tank doesn't have threat on.
     

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  16. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

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    Been there before, real life distractions are OP
     

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  17. Crimson Requiem

    Crimson Requiem Scion

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    I will neither deny or confirm these accusations. XD
     

  18. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

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    Im guilty of tanking on auto pilot. A show comes on while I am in a dungeon and suddenly I am just spamming overpower or unleash lol
     

  19. Elivercury

    Elivercury Crystal Brave

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    If they are that inattentive then you're probably doomed to failure from the start. 90%+ of DPS can follow a simple 1, 2, 3 and I find it's rare that they don't. If they don't they are probably putting out pathetic damage and their attacking order is the least of my issues.

    That being said, marking is often practical, not because you can't keep aggro from them attacking willy nilly, but because it gets single enemies down faster which means you're taking reduced damage for the rest of the fight - rather than having 4 enemies at 50% health you only have two enemies, at near full health. In addition to that, there are certain enemies that are an absolute priority to kill - e.g. Bees because they'll final sting you - and it is therefore worth marking them up for the DPS to kill.

    Will crappy DPS ignore them anyway? Sure, but as stated, this is at best 10% of the population. The other 90% will get those bees down ASAP, and the best DPS will know to do it whether you mark it or not.

    Also, seriously, why is thread necroing a hobby of yours? This post is nearly a year old. I've only given it a proper response because several others have already.
     

  20. Nez McNezza

    Nez McNezza New Member

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    Maybe I'm reading it for the first time? ;)
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 2, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 2, 2015 ---
    And yeah I think marking is good (even tho good dps wont need you to mark because they just wait for you to cement aggro then /assist you) i was just referring to runs where the dps ignore your markers repeatedly(ame goes for healers tossing out regen on you before you hit flash), even after you mention it in chat. So why waste time marking?

    and in my experience on DF those percentages are the opposite way around. literally every DF i get into has at least 1 dps who just wants to ignore the tanks lead and speed run the dungeon. Instead of communicating their disdain for the slower approach they just attack willy nilly then moan i the tank loses aggro on anything once. DF is cancer imo and 95% if them are like this. its rare you find a good healer or dps
     

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