Warrior Have I been tanking wrong the whole time?

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by wildbillhdmax01, Sep 3, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. wildbillhdmax01

    wildbillhdmax01 Bounty Hunter II

    Server:
    Mateus
    84
    76
    28
    Hello. I'm lvl 50 WAR. It's my main and the class/job/type I'm most use to. I even have a lvl 32 PLD. I got bored with tanking, so now I'm a healer, a WHM to exact.

    So I've been running Cutter's Cry lately and I ran in a party with people who have 50 in a lot of job. When I said that we should all attack the same enemy, the tank said that it was debatable..... Then a DPS half assed lectured me on it kinda.

    The tank lost hate a lot, and got it back, but not always. Because of this I had to heal them both. The DPS was always attacking a different enemy then the tank, so I stopped sleeping enemies. Which I do all the time and it works out great! Always good runs. But this time the dungeon took twice as long as it usually does, and we speed ran it.... So we walked past a lot of enemies. I've done it was faster the usual way, and doing a full run killing every thing!

    Me, and my friend (Who played FF XI a lot!), usually attack one enemy, as do all other tanks I've played with.

    So when I tank I mark targets, attack one enemy, and always keep hate! I've never been told different, and I've got a lot of player coms.
    So I got into another player in the same dungeon with almost lvl 5o across the board, and the same thing. I didn't say anything this time, but we didn't hit everything and it to much longer then usual. The monk almost die several time because the tank was taking one hell of a beating while the Monk was doing its own thing. Didn't sleep because they would only get woken up anyways.

    I'm kinda of a old player with account of 8 months if not older, I even per ordered the game. It sat on the self for a while. So I just decided to go back to my WAR beat the story, and start the end game. I was lvling up DOH, DOL, and other classes.

    So I've only done a couple of the end game dungeons, and The Ultima's Bane etc..... So I don't know how the 8, party dungs go, or the raids. I can only guess that with more tanks, heal, and DPSs that strategy might be different. But that can't really change how the Leveling, and End Game dungeons are done. Of course some have different little strategy, but it all the same.
    Sooooo....?
     

  2. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

    Server:
    Gilgamesh
    285
    485
    36
    If anything people should AoE groups of mobs together. Not focusing them down like the tank and monk were doing. To answer your question, no you aren't doing anything wrong. That is how tanking works and will always work. In blunt honesty, they were rather dumb to think that would work in a dungeon that isn't 50. It is true that you can get away with this in 50 dungeons if you swap targets regularly as melee (my boyfriend does this on monk when I tank because he knows I know he does, and it works out fine). I do recommend not sleeping if a BLM is around, unless of course the BLM also sleeps mobs, because most like to AoE. Waste of MP to use Repose in those cases.
     

  3. wildbillhdmax01

    wildbillhdmax01 Bounty Hunter II

    Server:
    Mateus
    84
    76
    28
    Thanks! :) Yes in the later dung, I find when we AOE mobs it go really fast, and so well! I usually don't sleep if someone else is, or a AOEs are going off.

    Also a side question. What classes do AOE attacks?
     

  4. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

    Server:
    Mataeus
    596
    774
    34
    Well truthfully there are two ways to tank with a warrior. Heavy AoE tanking which does not require people to focus on any one target. Or single target tanking with light AoE to hold secondary agro. This works for groups who can focus.

    As long as you are holding agro well enough then either method works in 4 man dungeons because there is enough down time and the fights are short to not really need to focus on maintaining your TP as it will regen between pulls.

    On the other hand in the 8man environment, its important the the group follows a kill order unless specified otherwise because the length of the encounters and trash pulls requires moderate to heavy TP management so as to ensure you do not TP starve your self towards the end of the encounter.

    As for the DPS you mentioned, those types are abundant but if your good enough as a tank, you can hold the threat and even live though what would be a longer encounter due to lack of coordination.
     

    wildbillhdmax01 likes this.
  5. wildbillhdmax01

    wildbillhdmax01 Bounty Hunter II

    Server:
    Mateus
    84
    76
    28
    In the later Dungs, I've have done AOE tanking, which works our great! And not to toot my own horn, but I'm a pretty good tank, but I mark my enemies and always tell to follow the order if someone attacks out of order.
     

  6. Cyn Romanace

    Cyn Romanace Scion

    Server:
    Mataeus
    596
    774
    34
    And that is a good practice.

    When you start tanking tanking raids, kill order becomes more important so it is a good habit to have. I see so many tanks who don't know how to mark or just don't care to mark because they feel its not needed due to their experience in dungeons.

    Keep doing what you are doing and you become a fine coil's tank!
     

    wildbillhdmax01 and racooperii like this.
  7. racooperii

    racooperii Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    2,301
    1,431
    48
    I probably should tank more, but it sounds like those parties had it bass aackwards.

    Ive always marked since Satasha, I get lazy with FC parties since we usually gel so well, and drives me nuts when people dont do it.

    Targets die faster and in turn means the healer has to work less during the encounter if people concentrate DPS on one at a time.

    I also love sleep, not enough CC usage in this game if you ask me :shifty:
     

    wildbillhdmax01 likes this.
  8. Sword

    Sword Scion

    954
    481
    35
    My friend you have run into what I affectionately call a D(er)PS. I get them alot when doing content as well, and I cannot lament my frustrations on these people enough. Unless there is a reason for it (such as killing the Rooks in T4 of Coil) they should not be attacking targets the tank's are not focusing on outside of an AoE situation.
     

  9. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    I don't fully get it, buutttt...

    DPS focusing single target kills single enemies faster and as a result, takes the strain off the healer because every time you kill a mob, that's one fewer things causing damage. It's the best way to ensure a win, assuming there isn't an excessive number

    Pulling many mobs is only beneficial if DPS is AoEong. It isn't the best way, it's the quickest way because overall, you're using fewer moves to clear that area than you would if you had to hit each one individually.

    As for aggroing on WAR, I'm not a pro with the class, but basically all I did was buff, spam OP, and then if I didn't have AoE skills to dodge out of (cutters was good for this), I could pop foresight once I was out if tp and go afk until everything was dead without losing aggro. I would assume that your single-target rotation would pull more aggro but it obviously isn't necessary at that point in the game. How easy it was is the reason I never got around to learning my other skills :shifty:
     

    Hermes and Sword like this.
  10. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    That... sounds... dumb. The only circumstances I can think of where "focusing targets is optional" is if you're AOEing, which you probably shouldn't be trying to do classes like Monk. They may have some area attacks but it's not a lot. It's more efficient to focus targets with party makeups like that. And if the tank is having such a hard time keeping up hate, obviously something's not working. Course, that could've just been one of those brilliant DPS who think that they can just do their own thing and any negative consequences are the tank or healer's fault. :shifty:

    I have no idea. I don't think sleeping mobs is always necessary, depending on the dps classes and damage output and how good the tank's and healer's gear are, but having everyone focusing on a different target sounds abysmally stupid.

    I, I, I need to steal that. D(er)PS. My God that is awesome.
     

    Sword, racooperii and wildbillhdmax01 like this.
  11. Sword

    Sword Scion

    954
    481
    35
    I think I may have just made a new MMO meme.
     

  12. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    [​IMG]
     

    wildbillhdmax01, Sword and racooperii like this.
  13. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

    Server:
    Gilgamesh
    285
    485
    36
    A little late to this, but all classes have an AoE.
    MNK > Rockbreaker
    DRG > Doom Spike/Ring of Thorns
    BRD > Rain of Death, Flaming Arrow, Wide Volley, Quick Nock
    BLM > Fire II, Flare
    SMN > Bane, Shadow Flare
    WHM > Holy
    SCH > same as SMN
    WAR > Overpower, of course
    PLD > Circle of Scorn

    WHM and BLM have the best AoE but a DRG and BRD together can do some pretty great AoEs with Doom Spike and Army's Paeon playing.
     

  14. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

    674
    451
    38
    My head sort of essploded when I read this... You weren't tanking wrong... But if you are running with ppl who need you to SLEEP as a WHM... Your party is not doing something right... Wtf...

    The only time I sleep as a whm is solo pve or if my party sucks... That's it.

    End game whm is about mitigation (e4e, stone skin, virus, etc...) and mp management while you avoid overheals to steal aggro... That's it.
     

  15. Sordel

    Sordel New Member

    2
    2
    8
    I ran Qarn as tank and the healer used Sleep for half of that dungeon. No one broke CC once and it went really well. Sure, I could have taken the additional damage, but I guess if the healer doesn't have to heal they can do some more dps, which seems like win/win.

    Recently I've noticed some tanks doing speedrun-style pulls in dungeons way below the point at which anyone in the party has aoe. It irritates me when I'm healing because I'm used to providing some useful dps during those roulettes and I get pushed onto spamming my one (or two) heal buttons for no advantage at all to the run. Focused pulling & killing is almost always the best approach up until well after 40, but some warrior tanks seem to think that Overpower on a large group provides more total dps than can be provided by a semi-redundant healer.
     

    MadwitTY likes this.
  16. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    933
    783
    46
    My brother's a whm and he complains about the same thing, tanks trying to speedrun everything whether it's a good idea or not (and whether the healer is comfortable with that or not). I just started learning heals, and at level 32… I'm not comfortable with speedrunning either. Speedran Copperbell with all people who hadn't unlocked their jobs yet and either weren't being leveled down or not much—Gladiator, Lancer, Arcanist, and Conjurer. I had a few "AAAAAAAAAUGH" moments XD
     

  17. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    Wait until endgame when healing those 4 mob pulls is so ridiculously easy that you can just not heal at all... I was one of those tanks that would only ever pull small groups because it was the most sensible, and because pulling everything meant I just stand there and spam flash instead of having to think (though there is actually more to it I eventually realized). But once I got a 50 WHM and healed AK I started to regret how boring if made some of these runs for my regular healers. I hate DPSing as healer outside of Holy :p

    Still, pulling stuff like that in DF without asking first, especially in those lower dungeons, is just bad tanking.
     

    delta5ff likes this.
  18. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

    674
    451
    38
    I love DPSing as SCH, but as WHM... well, only when I need to holy, or if I'm bored out of my mind on a ST run.

    If I need to sleep, ya... It's because the tank got stupid and pulled more than his armor could take and I don't think eye4eye is gonna cut the mitigation. Otherwise, the time to sleep is time wasted. Blm have a better AoE sleep effect...

    End game healing is, in my opinion, a balance between mana management and dmg mitigation. Esuna and eye4eye are so incredibly useful, and stoneskin over a regen. But something wonderful that most whm don't learn till later is the self-targeted cure3 to heal stacked members.
     

    GeekMatt likes this.
  19. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

    Server:
    Brynhildr
    1,931
    1,870
    58
    Cure III is so OP and so underutilized. WHMs should be looking for any point in a fight where everyone is stacked for a big AoE. Full-heal for the whole party.
     

  20. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

    674
    451
    38
    Absolutely! Prime examples are on gar ex, when she blasts the pillars and after every thermal high to rapidly correct excessive AoE before heading into the cyclone phase.

    When I see whm casting medica 2 because they think the regen effect is cool to mitigate dmg before sisters drop in... I cringe until they pop their shroud or you just know the tanks are gonna be rip-sh1t (and rightfully so).

    I never tank, don't know the skillset, and couldn't help a tank that asked for advise, but I'm assuming there are defensive buffs that help with high dmg rotations from things like wicked wheel that get used better by some tanks more than others.

    I'd love a breakdown of how tanks mitigate this better? Sometimes I struggle with healing a tank on gar ex with all my skills up and on. Often I don't. But it doesn't seem to correlate with ilvl.
     

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page