Dungeon agro..

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Faelorn, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Faelorn

    Faelorn Adventurer

    So, in my time in dungeons i find that 3 of every 5 tanks....simply just don't care who has aggro. That who generally being me since I'm healing. It make me VERY appreciative of good tanks where i can simply heal. Generally though i end up having aggro on 1-3 mobs a lot of the time. I generally sleep one, and kite the other 2 until the tank kills w/e mob he was hitting and hopefully builds hate on a new target, preferably..but not usually.. one of the ones I'm kiting..not the one i put to sleep ~_~

    More often than not, the dps who are just tunneling w/e add they want, and endlessly awaking my sleep target, yell at me for kiting, or as they call it "running around like an idiot." That's all fine and dandy but what else would they have me do? stand there and die? I must say it does make healing more interesting i guess, having to wait for my adds to hard cast something so they stop chasing me for a second so that i can toss a cure or 2 out.

    My groups don't really die ever, first boss of sunken temple was hilarious first few runs though, everyone insta gibs...wtf happened?...but I'm just confused by the hate, it's generally not my fault i have aggro on 3 mobs the tank didn't bother to touch, i don't spam heal, or blanket regen, unless . I generally wait till tank is initially half life to even start healing. So i'm doing my best not to die, while also keeping everyone else alive, while managing these adds on me...and people just yell at me haha

    TLDR - what would most people have the healer do when they get aggro? stand and hard cast cures/probably die? or kite and heal? other?

  2. xFinal

    xFinal Adventurer

    I kinda know where your coming from here but I have the other angle I guess, generally I get healers who just refuse to play really, wont heal tank dies, then its all hate for no reason, then my party healer just afks or leaves lol.

    I have noticed the tank problem your speaking of, I try to keep my eye on my target and his AoE and the healer every few seconds, generally thought he isn't running around for fun and the tank just keeps hitting away, so when that happens I try to attack the mob on the healer, though getting aggro as DPS aint so easy, I mean I cant see it being that hard to get the adds aggro as tank quickly, but I've never played as a tank so im in the dark there.

    But ultimately I think your in the right here, the last thing I want is the healer to die first, especially on a boss, since we then have no support except partial support from a ACN sometimes, the way I see it is if healer dies first our rez and main heal is gone, if tank dies first it isn't as bad as healer , since most times I can tank the boss for a few mins while tank gets rezzed, so I agree the tank needs to be quick and grab the aggro off you.

  3. Psyotik

    Psyotik Adventurer

    When I am tanking, if I don't get heals I leave the group.
    When I am tanking, if the DPS doesn't focus the marked target I leave.
    When I am healing if the Tank doesn't mark the targets on first pull I leave.
    When I am playing either and the DPS doesn't wait for the tank to get agro I leave.

    Most of the time its not the tanks fault that he doesn't have agro, most likely dps started aoeing random targets and the mobs are scattered. And hes chasing them down while the healer is spamming heals generating more threat than the tank thats still running around. I see this in most dungeons.

    jimskee likes this.
  4. The47thSen

    The47thSen Scion

    I've honestly not had any such problems when playing with other Japanese, though the one time we had an English speaker, he just ran off ignoring everyone, even though I said I could translate for him. Of course, he was the first to die.

  5. xFinal

    xFinal Adventurer

    Maybe when im playing healer/tank role id see this more, but I think ive seen it once or twice, from a Black Mage, just casting thunder on the next set of mobs before we've even finished killing the current one.

  6. fluttersnipe

    fluttersnipe Crystal Brave

    Funny. I find that 3 out of every 5 DPS are mouthbreathing goofs that try to attack everything im NOT attacking.

  7. xFinal

    xFinal Adventurer

    I'm quite shocked in all truth Lol, I didn't think there were loads of people like this, I think the only time I don't attack what the tank is hitting is when the healer is aggro'ed, then ill try and pull it off him until tank does, then switch to whatever the tank is hitting, I thought it was pretty obvious on the first dungeon that getting agro as DPS = death...Therefore I wait til tank jumps in the fray before I follow.

  8. Fornix

    Fornix Adventurer

    I prefer the healer to temporarily stop healing till I've done at least 2 flashes, and simply let me use a CD myself to help mitigate damage.

    The problem is that threat gain in this game is about the same from healing, as from taunts. So if you have aggro, I flash, you throw out a direct cure the odds are high you'll simply taunt the mob back. It helps to put back healing a bit there to prevent mobs simply running back and forth.

    Beyond that, if you do have mobs chasing you, please kite around the tank. As commonly as a tank you're already having to deal with DPS trying to steal an off-target right next to you, and the range of flash is extremely limited and provoke has a 40s CD so with a single heal thrown afterwards you'll be getting the mob directly back at you.

    Threat in this game is next to unforgiving when it comes to that. The tank needs to make sure to maintain sufficient threat on both the main target as well as off-targets. DPS needs to make sure they ALWAYS attack the tanks main target, often it's very clear which direction the tank is facing and which mob is being hit. Just follow suit. And the healer needs to make sure to keep healing to the bare minimum required. Avoid overhealing as it's the easiest way to make yourself the primary tank, and if you do manage to pull aggro kite close to the tank and reduce healing if possible.

    It all works a lot smoother if running as a premade and you're on voice-comm together. With PUGs there's simply way too many players who are not experienced with a threat system in which not all taunting is full AoE taunting and in which it makes sense for mobs to kill that healer in the back. The level of ragequit may be high, which depending on your role, may be annoying as you risk needing to queue up again.

    Faelorn likes this.
  9. Faelorn

    Faelorn Adventurer

    Thanks fornix for that perspective! yea i miss voice chat for parties, i can imagine it would help a ton in this game, i need to make some friends haha ><

  10. HintOfMint

    HintOfMint Crystal Brave

    You sound like a joy to party with.

  11. Psyotik

    Psyotik Adventurer

    Hint, I am actually quite a nice player, I do not rage or get upset. I just refuse to play with others that choose not to play their role.

    The problem is everyone in a dungeon is in a rush to get to the end. For some reason its as if everyone that ques up to run any dungeon has somewhere else they have to be in 20 minutes.
    And these people have a problem with letting the Tanks set the pace of the dungeon run.

    And Fornix is right heals are like taunts, so don't be afraid on trash mobs to let the tank get to 50% before landing heals. Tanks have defensive cool downs they can blow and pots. If a tank doesn't have full agro by the time he reaches 50% health either the dps are kiting around the room or the tank is terrible.

    And please don't heal DPS that pull agro at the start of a fight unless its the marked FOCUS mob beating on them!

  12. Jacin

    Jacin Adventurer

    Holy hell, dude. Reading that first part, I'd have to question if you've ever successfully finished a PuG run :) Sounds like 90% of my groups as a healer :_(

  13. xusha

    xusha Scion

    The healing agro in this game is ridiculous! It's fairly annoying, though I'm surprised you're still having troubles even at higher level.

  14. Azyurel

    Azyurel Adventurer

    Yeah I basically lay down the ground rules prior to the first pull.

    1) DPS attack the marked.
    2) If you are going to AOE, wait for two flashes.
    3) Let me pull unless otherwise directed.

    Generally most listen and are thankful that they aren't getting slapped around by mobs. Of course a "gentle" reminder is needed from time to time

    Engleburgh likes this.
  15. missushaley

    missushaley Adventurer

    I play DPS but this is my first MMO and honestly in a dungeon situation I'm too scared to do anything other than what I'm supposed to lol. I always let the tank go in first and I like when mobs get numbered so I don't have to cycle through targets to figure out which one to attack first.

    SynderCo, Maya, Maaja and 2 others like this.
  16. Dragon

    Dragon Scion

    Let the DPS die, and maybe the tank in some situations.

  17. kfen

    kfen Crystal Brave

    It's been an awkward call to make. Setting boss and mid-boss fights aside, I shouldn't be dealing with adds as dps or else the whole thing turns into a clusterf**k. Situationally, I will tackle them instead of letting the healer die, but it shouldn't be the norm. With boss fights, it's been situational, but I will take my cues from the tank and the healer unless it's seriously not working.

    Is there really a 'most of the time'? If you're not playing dps and you're not f'ing up, then from your perspective that leaves a 2 in 3 chance that a teammate messing up is dps (all other things being even). I am playing dps, and I rarely mess up -- yes, I definitely have been the one to bugger up in a couple of cases which I can't really excuse (even if the tank wasn't marking targets) --, so from my perspective, it's an even 1 in 3 shot that a weak player is dps. Still, in my experience, it's more frequently been the tank either because they didn't have it together, or perhaps it's just a harder task. Possibly a combination of the two. I don't know because I haven't had a go at tanking yet in this game.

    Agreed. If I really need it, I have back ups for small damage, but I'm not sub-tanking as an ARC; I'm killing something because we agreed it needed to be killed and I can hack the little stuff.

    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  18. Luko

    Luko Scion

    Warrior perspective: what the f**k is an aggro problem? o_O

    HeroMystic and kichwas like this.
  19. Taaltos

    Taaltos Adventurer

    I don't run into a lot of this. Then again, when I'm tanking I usually have something like this:

    "Hello, I'll be your friendly tank for this run, please attack marked targets first, don't pull before me, and if something attacks the healer, kill it quick. Keep all arms and legs inside the pug until it comes to a complete stop!"

    Tends to lighten the mood, and I don't come across like an asshole.

    SynderCo and StrawHatLaw13 like this.
  20. Azyurel

    Azyurel Adventurer

    Lol that's until you have two derpy DPS going full bore on other targets. Overpower only generates so much threat lol. I don't have incredible threat issues, but I do run into people that definitely think it's their job to pull and attack different mobs all the time...almost had an aneurism one dungeon, because this nerd wouldn't focus target.....archers....why is it ALWAYS archers...aka WoW Huntards...
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 3, 2013 ---
    Basically how i start it out.

    Taaltos likes this.

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