DoH Cross Class Abilities?

Discussion in 'Crafters & Gatherers' started by Grembo, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. Grembo

    Grembo Crystal Brave

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    Hey guys i've not long turned level 40 on my BSM and was wondering if I should look closer at abilities I can use from other classes.

    I've had Rumination from Carpenter (goes well with Inner Quiet for giving back CP) and Manipulation from GSM for a while but think I could get a bit more mileage out of BSM if I looked at other abilities.

    I've taken a look at the other skills I could grab and there's just too many of them ...most of them look beneficial too :/

    Is there any cross class abilities you guys use or aim to use? If not is there any you can recommend?

    Notice there's not many threads out there about this so be nice to get some discussion going. Doesn't have to specifically about BSM, chip in regardless :)
     

  2. Toukai

    Toukai Adventurer

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    Well, my highest DoH is armorer and its only 30 but i've noticed we have some pretty crap skills on our own. I find the easiest way to Hq things and materials to help make HQ gear to sell or use I use Rumination after inner quiet, and then i use the ability which uses 1/2 the dura per touch/basic for 4 turns.

    The name of the skill escapes me at the moment but if I'm making an Ingot which has 40 dura and I use the skill 2x I get 8 attempts to gain quality. Theres also a skill (I think from weaver but i may be totally wrong) that gives u a 100% success rate for basic synth but 90% efficiency and uses no Cp. I use this when my dura is @ 5/40 for ingots and I know its still enough to finish the synth without it breaking.

    It's rather CP heavy but I almost always can HQ ingots and materials to make the HQ Synthing of armor that much easier. I use the same method on armor since it has more Dura than ingots u get a little more wiggle room. This isn't that efficient though on items that are near your level since you need so many more points for HQ but it does tend to work wonder on making the materials for those higher level items giving you a good chance at HQ'ing.

    I hear the lv15 skill from Alchemy is really handy. Gives back 20cp whenever your synth is red (Good) it can be really handy for gettin some Cp back for an extra skill or 2.
     

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  3. Gossamer Isto

    Gossamer Isto Crystal Brave

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    I currently have Weaver, Goldsmith and Leatherworker at 50, and all other Disciples of the Hand at 15 or higher. This means I have two full skillbars with crafting abilities and I use a lot of them. Because of the flexibility in abilities I can reliably HQ any recipes below level 50 using only Normal Quality materials. It's a very long journey, but some cross class abilities are definitively worth getting.

    I'd say the importance of the cross class abilities are as follows:

    Careful Synthesis: 5/5 (WVR 15)
    Never fail to complete a synthesis ever again. You'll ignore most of your other progress based skills after you obtain this one. If you're serious about bringing any craft to 50, stop what you're doing and boost Weaver to 15 first just to grab this skill. You will not regret it.

    Careful Synthesis II: 6/5 (WVR 50)
    Never fail to complete a synthesis ever again, but now with more progress.

    Hasty Touch: 5/5 (CUL 15)
    Low chance, but great to use the remainder of your Durability. Also crucial for building Inner Quiet stacks to build high amounts of Control.

    Steady Hand II: 2/5 (CUL 37)
    Useful in combination with Hasty Touch, otherwise just the normal Steady Hand 1 works fine.

    Reclaim: 2/5 (CUL 50)
    If you manage to fail to complete synthesis at level 50 you're a pretty bad crafter. I'd only use this to intentionally break a synthesis if you failed to get enough stacks of Inner Quiet during the first 10 steps, hope you get your quality materials back again and try again from scratch.

    Waste Not: 4/5 (LTW 15)
    Very efficient way to save durability, even if you only manage to use it for 3 steps. You can still finish a Synthesis successfully at -5 durability. (So make your last hit at 5 durability a progress increasing/finishing move).

    Waste Not II (5/5) (LTW 50)
    The best durability saving move out there. Crucial for getting lots of touches in with Hasty Touch and increase your Inner Quiet.

    Rumination (2/5) (CRP 15)
    Not as good as it sounds, because your Inner Quiet stacks are incredibly important. I only use this as a last ditch effort to get a final Steady Hand + Advanced Touch in just before finishing your synthesis. Usually won't need it.

    Byregot's Blessing (5/5) (CRP 50)
    I don't have this move yet, but dang, this is absolutely the best Quality improving ability out there. The most important question however is, will this stack with Great Strides or not, as the name of this move doesn't include Touch.

    Tricks of the Trade (5/5) (ALC 15)
    Very important to regain enough CP in order to get your power combos off. (Innovation + Great Strides + Steady Hand + Advanced Touch). Basically if you can't use a Good in combination with Great Strides it's usually not worth the effort. Go grab those 20 CP instead then.

    Comfort Zone (4/5) (ALC 50)
    Who can say no to a free 22 CP in the long run? Can usually apply efficiently only once per synthesis.

    Rapid Synthesis (1/5) (ARM 15)
    Only useful if you like to play risky. Would advise against using this.

    Piece by Piece (4/5) (ARM 50)
    Useful for Item Level 55+ synthesis. On lower level recipes you should use Careful Synthesis instead.

    Ingenuity (1/5) (BSM 15) and Ingenuity II (BSM 50) (?/5)
    Never needed this on synthesis below item level 55. Didn't have much success on recipe level 55 (one star) crafts, and really could use the 42 CP beter on other moves. Possibly very valuable on recipe level 70 (two star) crafts but I haven't done any yet. Even then I'd probably prefer Piece by Piece by then instead.

    Manipulation (4/5) (GSM 15)
    Poor man's version of Waste Not, but I still use this move during the final steps of the synthesis when you're trying to hit big numbers with Great Strides + Advanced Synthesis. Where Waste Not is only useful useful when using durability consuming moves, Manipulation will always work and will give you back Durability when spamming Buff moves. Please be aware that you cannot use Manipulation when you only have 10 durability left and follow up with a durability consuming move. You will hit 0 durability and instantly fail your synth, since the 10 durability regain happens -after- the step completes.

    Flawless Synthesis (1/5) (GSM 37)
    Pretty worthless unless you're trying to synth some elementally unstable crafts like Vintage equipment. Even then the elemental based progress abilities are better.

    Innovation (4/5) (GSM 50)
    Extra bang for your buck when applying quality increasing moves. If you have a lot of Inner Quiet stacks this buff will really shine. My final moves usually include Innovation > Great Strides > Steady Hand > Advanced Touch for about 1500+ quality increase.
     

    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
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  4. Toukai

    Toukai Adventurer

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    That was a lot of awesome information. I do have 1 question though now. Is there a way to boost the success rate of basic Touch? Because every once in a while i'll have a really hard time trying to HQ low tier stuff cuz i just fail over and over again with basic touch. Like just now i was trying to make a HQ iron ingot and failed 6 basic touch in a row :shifty:

    Does control or craftsmanship have anything to do with it or is it just always a70% chance? And should i stick with basic touch 2 for its 80% but nearly 2x cp cost?
     

    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  5. Solanales

    Solanales Crystal Brave

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    I've had a ton of success pairing Rumination & Leatherworkers "Waste Not" with my Weaver. I can generally HQ just about every item I'm producing which has helped immensely in leveling.

    These DOH abilities really make the other classes worth it.

    Gossamer posted a ton of great info though. Well done sir!
     

  6. Gossamer Isto

    Gossamer Isto Crystal Brave

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    Success rates are fixed. (This is why careful synthesis is so powerful). The only way to improve it will be with Steady Hand (+10%) / Steady Hand 2 (+20%).

    Near endgame you'll get Advanced Touch, which has 90% success rate. (There's astandard touch with 80% somewhere near the middle). With Steady Hand 1 you'll cap Advanced Touch at 100%, and is a great finisher with your large amount of Inner Quiet stacks.
     

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  7. Adonsa

    Adonsa Crystal Brave

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    Hi Gossamer,

    My weaver needs a cross class, and your post will be most helpful.
    Before I even sign up for another class, I found this:

    Quote from Ives
    Both the Preserve and Fulfillment look really useful to have. :) So, I searched further for more information,
    and noticed that both those skills are conspicuously missing from the cross class abilities section of the FFXIV Info website. :confused:

    Naturally, I'm reluctant to sign up for Alchemy just to see if Preserve is there.
    More info on Preserve and Fulfillment will be most highly appreciated.
    Thanks.
     

  8. Ivy

    Ivy Bounty Hunter II

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    @Adonsa
    Likely some outdated information there, but it's still a good idea to get all DoH to 15+, particularly ALC and LTW. You want Trick of the Trade and Waste Not for leveling (Hasty Touch, CUL 15, is okay too, but RNG hates it. A lot). They help a lot in trying to get HQ items for bonus XP. CUL to 37 and CRP to 50 are two good ones to start off leveling higher. Byregot's Blessing is hands down the best the cross class, and Steady Hand II helps immensely. From there, it's pretty much your own leisure as to what to get to 50 next; the rest are just "nice" to have.
     

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  9. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    Yea, those are completely outdated information, Adonsa... Preserve and Fulfillment dont exist anymore. Just take MiKairi's advice up there... Get Waste Not, Trick of Trade.... Then get Weaver's Careful Synthesis, Carpenter's Rumination etc... just get them all! LOL! Cul's Hasty Touch works OK after you have Cul's Steady Hand II. Personally, I prefer to get Weaver to level 50 first since the class is just so useful by itself. So I think you're on the right track.

    Gossamer Isto's post up there used to be very helpful, but is now completely outdated.

    At low levels, Rumination is actually very powerful before you have Byregot. If you plan it well, you can do something like:
    Inner Quiet, Trick of Trade*, Steady Hand II, Waste Not, Hasty T, Hasty T, Trick of Trade*, Hasty T,
    Steady Hand II, Waste Not, Trick of Trade*, Hasty T, Hasty T, Hasty T...
    Then BOOM! Rumination + Master Mend!
    Now you have a ton of durability again, and you can slowly run through it with Hasty T again and then a single Basic Synthesis under Steady Hand to finish it...
    (*Assuming u got one available)

    It's a risky way to craft, but if you're lucky, you can touch like 7 to 8 times for a 40 Durab item... It works when u dont have many skills in hand to play around with.

    Ingenuity II is actually so powerful that it is indispensable when you do end-game crafting post-level 50. It doesn't work too well with items below 1 star. But for 2 stars and 3 stars, you can't live without them.

    Same thing goes for Manipulation... The time will come when you find Manipulation actually useful in very difficult items that has only 40 durability. In such a case, it is much better than Waste Not. When CP is not an issue, while inner quiet stack is, Manipulation will show its powers...

    Rapid Syn is more like a life-saver when you messed up something, and try to test your luck to mend it... In my opinion, it's not a skill that you would choose to use given a choice.
     

    Last edited: May 25, 2014
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  10. Adonsa

    Adonsa Crystal Brave

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    Hi Caimie and Makiri

    Thank you very very much !!!:)

    I got into leatherworker and like it a lot, my Level 17 LTW is
    frantically working to catch up with my level 35 weaver, 'cause
    they work so well together. Plan is for both to go all the way.

    I haven't thought about Alchemist, but I'll take a serious look.
    I was told, by fellow FC members, to start Carpenter and go to level 15.

    With the market boards being inflated/deflated, and torn to pieces
    by the real money traders, interdependent classes seem to be the best solution.
    Having a level 50 BTN, and high level DoW is helping a lot.

    Again, many thanks.
     

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  11. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    Wow. Thanks for the thread. I've just finished lvling my main job and have started to craft on goldsmith for Blm weapon (cause 100k+ for relic weapon sub-quest is just silly)... And am grossly naive as to how these skills chain up.

    What are "inner quiet" stacks? I don't understand this skill buff. Thanks.
     

  12. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    Inner Quiet is probably one of the most important crafting buffs in this game.
    Inner Quiet: "Grants a bonus to control with every increase in quality."
    What this means is, if you have, lets say, 130 control (I'm just making up numbers). Each "Basic Touch" gives rise to, lets say, 70 quality. Without Inner Quiet, you will forever gain +70 quality each time you use Basic Touch. But with Inner Quiet, each time after a touch, you gain extra 20% of your base control (in this case, 20% is 26), and so the next time you touch again, it'll be more than just 70 quality. It ends up with something like this:
    -> Click Inner Quiet (inner quiet buff stack 1)
    -> Basic Touch -> +70 quality (inner quiet stack 2, control+26, increase to 156)
    -> Basic Touch -> +85 quality (inner quiet stack 3, control+26, increase to 182)
    -> Basic Touch -> +100 quality (inner quiet stack 4, control+26, increase to 208)
    ...etc.

    You get this buff at level 11 in any crafting class. At super low level (like below level 12), you won't have the CP to use it. So just focus on touches and synthesis. But a few levels later, this will be the first button you click every time you start crafting something.

    Inner Quiet is also the key for the skills Rumination and Byregot's Blessing. Rum and Byre will turn an Inner Quiet stack into either CP or bonus quality for the Byregot respectively. Without Inner Quiet, these skills don't work (and without Byregot, you'll be stuck with 1 star items or below forever).

    Ok, I take back the sentence "this will be the first button you click every time you start crafting something". Actually once you have acquired Comfort Zone from Alchemy lvl 50, Comfort Zone will be the first button. But before that, Inner Quiet will be the first button every day for ya.
     

    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
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  13. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    Btw, crafting is all about chaining up cross class skills. The more cross class skills you have, the more combinations or rotations you can come up with. In DoW/DoM, you don't need ALL-50 to benefit a single class. In DoH, ALL-50 is just the true beginning when you have collected all your "tools", and now u can freely mix and match to create your own most powerful rotation. All that hard work to reach all-50 is just so that you can begin the real fun from there... That is also why a lvl 50 Bard only has like a few slots for cross class abilities, but a lvl 50 Goldsmith has like 10 of them (I forgot exactly how many). In fact, at the end there're TOO many useful cross class skills that even all those slots are not enough for me... I wish I could add like 1 or 2 more...

    Maybe I should write up an advanced crafting guide at some point...
     

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  14. Hermes

    Hermes Scion

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    You clearly love crafting!!! Lol. Thanks. Based on the descripto, I was hitting it last before my final touch if the quality was good... As I thought it improved control based on the already modified HQ%... So misguided!!!!!

    My Glm is level 32, just started to go back and lvl other crafting to get better access to triple-item leve recs... I've been making all my HQ ingredients with (steady hand, great strides, touch2, great strides, touch2, steady hand, great strides, touch2, inner quiet, synth)....

    So I should put IQ in front? Lol. Thanks again.
     

  15. Caimie Tsukino

    Caimie Tsukino Realm Scribe

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    Absolutely! IQ is 1st button! Please keep that in mind! *thumbs* :)
     

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